4-year-old shown the door at Georgia restaurant
A Georgia mother and her daughters were kicked out of a Jackson restaurant because one daughter, 4-year-old Alyssa, who is autistic, was crying. Another customer—-Jackson Police Chief Dennis Rushton, it turned out—-said that her crying was “‘beginning to make [his] head hurt.’”
Excluded, again.
Tags: asd, asperger, autism, autism blog, buckhead, developmental disability, Family, father, georgia, mothering blog, parent, parenting blog, pdd-nos, restaurantRelated Stories
POSTED IN: Disability Rights, Family
28 opinions for 4-year-old shown the door at Georgia restaurant
Leila
Jul 17, 2008 at 1:25 pm
An arrogant, self-absorbed man who doesn’t deserve his title. Kudos to this mother for her courage to get the story out.
xtiluv
Jul 17, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I love that the town slogan is “The community that cares and shares”. I guess they mean they care about themselves and are willing to share judgment and intimidation. What a lovely community.
farmwifetwo
Jul 17, 2008 at 2:10 pm
See I fall under the “autism may be the reason, but it’s not an excuse for behaviour” camp. If it was my child, I would have walked her out and given her the opportunity to calm down before going back in.
You would expect that if an NT child was crying or screaming in public that that parent would do the same thing. Fair is fair…. a dx doesn’t give one extra rights, it just offers a reason.
Now, saying that… and reading the one comment, the Chief of Police was rude, ignorant and tactless and this seems to be a normal occurance of his…. for that she deserves an appology. Had he been polite and asked her nicely to take the child out until she calmed down and offered to assist.. say by watching the other children for her… then he would have handled the situation much better.
Also, the mother said “had they just brought her chocolate milk” HUH??? I bring supplies, like juice, goldfish crackers and keep them handy incase the restaurant is busy when I know my children are hungry. Keeps them happy, while they wait.
This mother didn’t and again… that’s not the restaurants fault that’s hers.
Also, she wasn’t kicked out… the Chief of Police was just rude so if she left, it was b/c she chose to.
S.
Anna
Jul 17, 2008 at 2:13 pm
I am the mother of a wonderful little four year old boy with autism. There have been many times I have chosen to remove him from a public situation due to poor behavior or meltdowns rather than have an already stressful situation become out of control. It is difficult, but I have to weigh the rights of my child to be in a particular setting versus the rights of the other patrons/visitors to enjoy the setting without disturbance.
loves chocolate milk
Jul 17, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Where’s that ‘camp’ you speak of farmwifetwo? I keep noticing you talk a lot about behavior and I think you keep missing the point. ASD is not about ‘behaviors’; it’s a difference and a disability. The disability aspect may appear to those who don’t know enough about ASDs as some kind of bad behavior — but that is certainly not the case and it’s not helpful to keep perpetuating the old stereotypes.
Patrick
Jul 17, 2008 at 3:04 pm
And I suppose he doesn’t think the loud wailing noises from passing emergency vehicles don’t give others bona fide headaches?
I think farmwifetoo had an excellent idea, that if mr officer could have maintained his cool, and suggested a reasonable strategy, this situation could have been much better defused. Instead we hear the ‘oh pity me’ I was going to have a headache kind of lament that would befit a whiner like Tepper-Singer.
Marla
Jul 17, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Wow. Interesting comments. Parents who seem to know everything amaze me.
passionlessDrone
Jul 17, 2008 at 3:43 pm
We haven’t had a non stressful meal outside the house with Luke in attendance in some time; years. It is always about keeping him interested in something, chasing him down, finding foods that don’t explode his gut, keeping him from grabbing food from other peoples plates, and wolfing down whatever we get. Meltdowns are rare, but this is likely because we choose restaraunts we know have outdoor areas, and when he starts squirming, we bail instead of trying to force him to comply with a situation he just doesn’t get.
It is never about relaxing. I am an accomplished chef, but sometimes I want other people to do the work and clean up the mess. Sigh.
Synesthesia
Jul 17, 2008 at 3:55 pm
I don’t get it.
Kids CRY sometimes. They throw tantrums. It’s what they do. Doesn’t this guy have kids?
Regan
Jul 17, 2008 at 3:56 pm
It can get better.
When Eleanor was little we thought we would never eat in a sit-down restaurant again and sweated bullets if there was a wait and took lots of walks around the block. For the past two years we have a weekly family restaurant night where each member has a rotating choice (Eleanor has used pictures, but recently has been vocalizing her choice). One of her favorites is a notoriously slow Japanese restaurant and she sits there sipping on a Shirley Temple taking in the scene and the noise. So, it can get better, although I wouldn’t have believed anyone if I’d been told that 5 years ago.
Mekei
Jul 17, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Ugh, I want to vomit.
Society isn’t getting the message on autism and the spectrum of autism behaviors. I have to wonder why with all of the (bad) press with Jenny Mac et al. Could it be that people are just too saturated with all the negative awareness that they have no room for compassionate intelligence?
People refuse to see autism as a disabiity, or as it has been termed sometimes as a “hidden disability” b/c the children look *normal.* When bystanders can’t physically visualize a disablility, they’re more apt to jump to the “behavior camp” like farmerswife.
This is so wrong, but if that child had been in a wheelchair and/or with a deformity of some sort, still crying, no one would have had the heart or cajones to remove her.
Where’s the ACLU from these recent obvious discrminatory actions from the airlines, restaurants and schools?
C. S. Wyatt
Jul 17, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Here’s a complication: a crying child can cause me to have a seizure — literally. It has happened several times.
My wife has me “test” places before we sit down and order a meal. Some days, I can’t be around any disturbances. I pay to go to “nice” places to eat so I won’t have a meltdown or seizure.
So, am I mean because my characteristics limit what I can do? I won’t tolerate some children and that my “autism” — but I have no right to a meal if some parent wants to drag a two-year-old into a $40-50/plate restaurant?
Sorry, but my hyper-sensitivity to sound and light also require understanding and appreciation. Silly me… I have no rights.
Eleanor
Jul 17, 2008 at 4:33 pm
This story was posted on The Consumerist a few days ago, and what was even worse than the story itself was the tone of the 100 plus comments that followed it. The vast majority of posters felt that the public should not have to be subjected to the sight or sounds of children with disabilities, and that only bad parents would bring such children into public places. (And then there was the even more offensive minority that suggested that autism doesn’t exist and parents simply use it as an excuse for their their childrens’ bad behavior.) There was similar commentary on the story of the family with two disabled children who were thrown off an airplane a few weeks ago. If the commenters over there are a fair slice of the general public, then I’m pretty depressed.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 17, 2008 at 4:34 pm
@pD,
You could open a restaurant or just make meals and we’ll do the dishes……
Maddy
Jul 17, 2008 at 4:44 pm
I think it in part depends upon your location. If you’re out in the middle of nowhere you have fewer choices. If you’re in the middle of somewhere busy, then you can choose ‘noisier’ restaurants.
Of course ‘noisier’ restaurants can be almost painful for some small people.
Meanwhile, we continue to ‘practice.’ Some people make it easier for my children to ‘learn’ other people make it more difficult.
One way or another, my children learn about the people that surround them.
It’s a question of how you want to be remember, and they will remember.
Cheers
Emily
Jul 17, 2008 at 4:53 pm
This appears to be a small town, and the police chief appears to have known the family (?). Sounds like he was talking to the mother as someone who knows her. There’s a psychological difference there compared to a complete stranger just yelling at someone in a restaurant. Also sounds like he was pretty comfortable talking with the grandfather and saying what was on his mind. That said, obviously, he could have had better manners.
I can’t stand it when people keep their crying children in a restaurant. Can.NOT. Stand. It. If my children even look like they’re about to act up and distractions or food or whatever doesn’t have an immediate, positive effect, we’re outside, immediately. I don’t care if they’re neurotypical or not, they are not allowed to fuss loudly in a restaurant and disturb other patrons; it’s not an airplane, and I can change the situation as necessary. Interestingly enough, none of my children ever do misbehave now, not even the baby, and we’ve often had complete strangers comment to us about how well behaved our children are. Part of that is knowing our children, knowing when to go out, where to go, and what to bring. Just like flying or being in public or any situation, being prepared can make all of the difference.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 17, 2008 at 5:23 pm
We tend to seek out noisy restaurants with less than pristine floors—-”homey” Chinese and Asian places—–though Charlie is pretty good about going to most places. Last time we went out to a Portuguese restaurant with (!!!) cloth napkins (for a little celebration after I got tenure).
But there was a time I just caught a ceramic platter flying through the air before it hit another patron at a diner.
Regan
Jul 17, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Okay, now translate this to a church.
I don’t mean this in a cheeky way, but I’m sitting here trying to tease out if there’s a general framework here and the guiding paradigms.
And then, as C.S. Wyatt points out, there is the matter of other people, possibly with their own disabilities or special needs.
Posing some questions and thought-problem hypotheticals purely as such and not strawmen…Had this girl ever been ejected from this coffeeshop before? Does the deputy police chief have a reputation as an unreasonable so-and-so with a low tolerance for any perturbation (Yelling across the restaurant seems to indicate some basic feeling of entitlement on its own)? Was it reasonable for the restaurant to have been specially prepared with chocolate milk?
What if the girl had been in a wheelchair?
What if the deputy police chief had been?
What if she had been typical, and the person asking her to leave was autistic? What if her crying or acting out was a function of involuntary seizures? It gets complicated and seems to have some potential to defy simple black/white, esp. third hand.
As Eleanor points out, if the Joe on the streets’ assessment is that those with cognitive or invisible disabilities should be kept at home or out of sight, then that is disappointing since it indicates that we may not have really advanced that far from 100 or even 50 years ago, and my view is on reading the comments the children seem to be the recipients of some misunderstanding of what is controllable or doable at all times, that those with communication problems may be in-transit to learning more functional means, that tolerable does not always mean comfortable, some harbored feelings about parenting in general and a general anxiety that someone might be getting more privilege or advantage than they do.
Rebecca
Jul 17, 2008 at 8:56 pm
We don’t go out to eat a lot for numerous reasons. 1. neither L or K would tolerate waiting for very long and you have to wait to be seated, wait to order, wait for the food etc. 2. Both boys tend to eat and run, often at the same time, not a desirable behavior in restaurants. 3. Noise, smells, etc. All the same, when we do go out I do my reconnaissance first. Can we get reservations so we don’t wait? Check the kids menu online, and the grownup one for that matter so we often sit and order at the same time. I bring PB&J, string cheese, choc milk, juice, cookies in case L and K are hungry or impatient waiting for food. And yes, we have had to box up our meals and leave as soon as the food arrives because L and K just couldn’t take anymore and were beginning to act up, cry uncontrollably, scream, want to run etc. Trying to stay in that situation would be less than pleasant and very negative for all involved: L and K, my husb and I and other patrons. I understand my kids and their limits, and while some small things can be avoided or deescalated, I don’t expect others to tolerate uncontrollable screaming or tantrums. I wouldn’t if rolls were reversed, autistic or not.
All children need to learn appropriate behaviors when out in public. I get that that is harder for some than for others, believe me. It takes time, and often gets better as they get older.
So until your kids can tolerate a nicer place, stick to those with an atmosphere that welcomes kids and their behaviors, regardless of the autism.
Lastly, we often don’t go out because it rarely is a positive experience for L and K. To much waiting, noise etc. We often leave while the experience is still pleasant so they want to go again. If they are completely upset by the time we leave, just seeing the building again brings on ” no, no no” from L.
We treat church the same way. Snacks, attending services with more families, so more kids of all types making noise. No one cares if mine make a little noise, too. And yes, we leave about 45 min in when the experience is still positive for all. It works.
Rebecca
Jul 17, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Oh yeah, and tip really REALLY well for whoever has to clean up after we are done. One place we like just has this great carpet sweaper thing. I was apologizing and helping to clean up under the table, and the waitress said, no biggie, it happens a lot, and she had a smile on her face too!
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 17, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Jim is a generous tipper and has always left “something extra” when we go out with Charlie.
I am trying to think of a positive lesson out of this, with CS Wyatt’s point particularly in mind. This might sound odd, but it would be important if the family could return to the restaurant and have a (fairly) peaceful time of it. Too often we’ve just had to cross places after Charlie had a tough time and I felt if we could have gone back, if we’d felt safe at going back, something could be learned by everyone.
lonestar818
Jul 18, 2008 at 9:05 am
@Eleanor - I completely agree, the attitudes I’ve seen in many of the comments tell me we have a long way to go in terms of awareness / acceptance.
It took us years to get to a point where we could have a relatively calm meal at a restaurant with our twins. We still make it a point to go to the same places each time (somewhere familiar and family-friendly), at off-times when it’s not busy, we bring lots of things to keep the boys busy, and we tip well :). But we never could have gotten to this point had we just stayed home and not tried all those years. We’re kind of back to square one now w/ our youngest also on the spectrum and he has difficulty w/ restaurants.
We do take our kids out if they get too rowdy / loud or are crying or having a fit, and we are always prepared to leave early if needed. But do we take them out or bail at the first sign of impending trouble? No, otherwise how are they ever going to learn? We make an effort to calm them at our table first. If we can’t get them calm in a reasonable time (we don’t wait long, we are mindful of others trying to enjoy their meal), then we take them out. When they’re calm, we bring them back in. Sometimes we have to do this several times. Sometimes we have to ask the restaurant to box up our food so we can leave. Sometimes we can tell the boys are too antsy to handle it and we stay home or get takeout to eat in the car (if we’re not at home).
The thing is, I’m pretty sure most other parents do the same things, so the accusation that we’re all just sitting there “letting them” run wild or cry and not trying to keep them calm is ridiculous. But it’s not a matter of just snapping our fingers. People who are so judgmental wouldn’t last a day in our shoes. Heck, they wouldn’t last a day in our kids’ shoes.
Emily
Jul 18, 2008 at 2:41 pm
“We do take our kids out if they get too rowdy / loud or are crying or having a fit, and we are always prepared to leave early if needed. …We make an effort to calm them at our table first. If we can’t get them calm in a reasonable time (we don’t wait long, we are mindful of others trying to enjoy their meal), then we take them out. When they’re calm, we bring them back in.”
We have always done this, too. If those things don’t work, we’re outside, immediately. I don’t let my kids disturb others in a restaurant for more than about 10 seconds. If food/toys/drawing/talking/counting down don’t work ASAP, we go outside. My kids *know* that, and that’s why they behave so well, we think. Even the baby has got the “time out” thing down now; I’ll ask him, “Do you want to take a time out?” (which consists of simply standing there, counting to ten, which seems to calm him immensely), and he’ll say, “No,” and stop his behaviors. Instant, swift attention to any negative behavior is powerfully effective.
“But do we take them out or bail at the first sign of impending trouble? No, otherwise how are they ever going to learn?”
They learn that when they start behaving a certain way, they’re removed–what else are they supposed to learn? Kids, regardless of their developmental status, learn very quickly exactly how much time they have before the hammer comes down. If you give them 20 seconds, they’ll take 20 seconds. We don’t zip them out of there when storm clouds gather…we are masters at distraction and deflection at this point…but as I said, if that fails within about 10 seconds, we go outside. I have a VERY low tolerance for disrupting other people’s enjoyment of their time in a restaurant. I know I want mine to be pleasurable, and I respect that for others. On a plane, there’s not much choice, although again…we always fly as prepared as we can be.
Emily
Jul 18, 2008 at 2:42 pm
All that said, I can’t even think of the last time we had to leave a restaurant with our children. But of course, we’re on our third at this point.
lonestar818
Jul 19, 2008 at 8:15 am
@Emily - Thankfully, it’s been a long time since we’ve had to take our older boys out of a restaurant (or anywhere else) as well. We’re also on our third and our baby is another story but he is coming along too.
Just wanted to clarify my comment above “But do we take them out or bail at the first sign of impending trouble? No, otherwise how are they ever going to learn?”
You say that they’ll learn that they’re going to be removed if they act up and that’s exactly my point. You assume that’s a “negative” to the child, and for yours it apparently is. However, if the reason they’re behaving inappropriately is b/c they are overstimulated (which despite our best efforts to avoid, sometimes still happens) and they WANT to leave, then taking them out immediately is only going to reinforce the behavior. That’s what I meant.
That said, I know the “behavior” is their way of communicating when they’ve had enough so at the risk of reinforcing it we do respond pretty quickly so that they know we understood what they needed and so we don’t create a scene. And b/c giving them a few minutes to chill out can go a long way toward avoiding any worse “behavior.”
Emily
Jul 19, 2008 at 10:04 am
That’s insightful, LoneStar, and how we think about it, as well. Our kids don’t like to be “away” from the family group, and being “outside” can (a) calm them considerably from the overstim so that they can (b) return to the family group, where they want to be. But I really can’t remember the last time I had to remove someone from a restaurant. That’s likely because we usually only go out as a family to breakfast, when everyone is still pretty calm (relatively speaking). We never go out to dinner.
Regan
Jul 19, 2008 at 1:11 pm
He said, she said…still trying to figure out what we would do in the same situation.
Man disputes mother’s account of confrontation with police chief
Storkdok
Jul 19, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I agree with Emily and LoneStar! I wouldn’t let either one of my kids disturb others in a restaurant. We plan outings and go prepared, with food, snacks and drinks in case there is a wait. We take small toys that don’t make noise, and coloring books, to keep them distracted. If they start to get loud or restless, we take them outside and let them calm down. Rarely do we have to change to take out and leave, but we have done that on occasion.
For us, the funny thing is, my 7 year old autistic son is the easy one to take out to eat, travel with, and gets all kinds of compliments since he was a baby about how well mannered he is. My 3 year old NT son is the one who has a difficult time in the restaurants and when traveling!
Recently, when I took the boys by myself to ride the trains and then to one of our favorite family restaurants, I realized they were overtired, overstimulated and very hungry, but they wanted to go, begged to go, so I tried it. I ordered and my younger son started acting up. I didn’t hesitate to ask them to box up everything when he wouldn’t calm down right away. I would have done the same thing had it been my older son.
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