About This Autism Debate
In the wake of the concession by the government in the case of a 9 year old girl whose underlying, rare mitochondrial disorder was “aggravated” by vaccines, CBS News has reposted an article that was originally published last June, Autism: Why The Debate Rages by investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson.
Attkisson offers seven reasons as to why—-as scientific evidence refuting a vaccine-autism link continues to increase—”anyone [is] even still debating the possibility of a link between vaccines and autism.” In particular, she notes that, while government officials and agencies (such as the CDC), mainstream scientists, and non-profits who dispel any vaccine/autism link, may not have direct ties with pharmaceutical companies who manufacture vaccines, there is more “overlap” among them so that “they provide at least has the appearance of a conflict of interest.” For instance, Attkisson points out that “University and government researchers and advisors often do research for vaccine companies, help develop vaccines (even profit from them), and/or are paid to consult for them,” but often do not point out their ties to the pharmaceutical industry when making public statements refuting a vaccine-autism link.
Due to the internet and other resources that are available to the public, “parents,” Attkisson notes, are able to “to find research on vaccines and read it for themselves. They compare the government’s all-or-nothing approach to the research and become skeptical that the government is presenting the whole picture on vaccine safety generally.” Yes, definitely: There’s no doubt that parent-founded and led groups like Safe Minds and Generation Rescue have been more than active in making sure that the vaccine-autism issue is not forgotten, by the government, by politicians, or by the general public and the media. Parents who are directors of these groups, such as Sallie Bernard of Safe Minds, are often quoted in articles on this topic, without their very strong viewpoints on this issue being made clear (see, for instance, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution article about Hannah Poling).
I would like to note one refinement to the “parents” that Attkisson refers to. Like many journalists reporting about the vaccine-autism link, the word “parents” in her article is used to refer to parents generally, as if to suggest that many or all parents of autistic children support such hypotheses about what causes autism. While many parents do at least voice concern (despite scientific evidence to the contrary) that there might be something in a vaccine or a vaccine itself that might be linked to autism, there are also many parents (like me) who know that their child is autistic not because of a vaccine, or something in a vaccine. There’s a broad, big spectrum of parents of autistic children and adults with more than a few beliefs about what causes autism—-and who (unlike a certain mother) know that Google (which David Kirby exhorts people to check to find out how many times terms like “autism and mitochondria” and “mercury and mitochondria” occur) is just the merest starting place for research.
Go here for an analysis of the issue in today’s New York Times. Tags: asd, asperger, autism, cdc, david kirby, government, mercury, mitochondrial disease, Parenting, pdd-nos, pharmaceutical companies, vaccine court, Vaccines
32 opinions for About This Autism Debate
Marla
Mar 7, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Well said.
bev
Mar 7, 2008 at 4:45 pm
There are many things I like about being a part of Autism Hub. One of them is getting to know the parents here who do not subscribe to the harmful ideas that autism = damage and that autistic children are toxic. I don’t like seeing any group reduced to a “label” as if that explained their beliefs and values.
Thank you for all the work you do here and for speaking out to offer a saner perspective.
Club 166
Mar 7, 2008 at 5:17 pm
The problem is that there is NO debate.
What there is is shrill yelling on one side regarding conspiracies, coverups, and collusion to keep the truth (that vaccines cause autism) from being told.
Meanwhile this is countered by science, statistics, and common sense on the other side.
But since no one can ever tell you with 100% certainty that something wasn’t caused by something else, those illogical shrill Harpies will not vanish.
Joe
Emily
Mar 7, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Joe, ya left out a dot in your URL.
daedalus2u
Mar 7, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Debates are useful for points that are debatable. Matters of fact, once there is sufficient data, usually are no longer debatable. There is no “debate” about whether the Sun goes around the Earth, or the Earth goes around the Sun. What we do with that information is something that can be debated. Do we pretend that the Sun does go around the Earth, that the Sun moves across the sky powered by magical horses? Or do we accept the reality of the heliocentric solar system, use it to better calculate the positions of the planets and move on to other things?
Whether vaccines cause autism or not is a matter of fact. So far, all the data points to there being no connection. The point is not debatable any more.
We can debate how to respond to that data. We can pretend that data doesn’t exist, that vaccines are deadly poison and move health care back into the 19th century. I suppose it is better than moving it back to the 16th century and burning people as witches.
Jill
Mar 7, 2008 at 11:09 pm
I must confess, I was one of those mothers that sat on the fence on this one. I became irrational to the point that I stopped updating their vaccinations and joined a biomedical listserve. When the people on that listserve starting making declarations that there was no use for vaccines, I realized that I was conversing with a bunch of nutcases and felt embarrassed that I even entertained the thought of the connection. There was a BBC documentary series in the late 90’s that discussed the importance of vaccines. I wish that all parents can view this. It was so sad to see these beautiful children die because of their parents ignorance.
Club 166
Mar 7, 2008 at 11:48 pm
@Emily,
Sorry about that. This site usually has a cookie left from before that autofills the data. I guess one of my computers has a bad link. I’ll try to watch that.
@daedalus2u,
…I suppose it is better than moving it back to the 16th century and burning people as witches. …
Sometimes I think that chelation, home hyperbaric chambers with supplemental O2, saunas, electric shocks, and stem cell transplants used to try to “cure” someone of autism are little better.
Joe
John Gilmore
Mar 7, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Hi Folks,
I just spent the last two days with the Polings. There is no evidence that their daughter had a “pre-existing condition.” They know she has a mitochondrial disorder now. The government knows this but they chose to present a supposition about Hannah Poling’s health prior to receiving the vaccinations as a fact. The Polings have said this repeatedly. The government is lying about this.
Chuck
Mar 8, 2008 at 12:34 am
@daedalus2u,
Whether vaccines cause autism or not is a matter of fact. The point is not debatable any more.
That isn’t the debate we are having now. Do vaccines cause autistic like behaviors? There are no studies to disprove this hypothesis and only one data point, Hanna Poling, to reference for a “yes” answer.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Mar 8, 2008 at 12:59 am
And here’s the New York Times writing about Hannah Poling’s case and making it sound like all parents of autistic children support a vaccine-autism link: John Gilmore of Autism United, Lyn Redwood of Safe Minds, and Rita Shreffler of the National Autism Association are the only parents quoted.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Mar 8, 2008 at 1:27 am
@John Gilmore,
Thanks for sharing more details about this one case.
DoctorT
Mar 8, 2008 at 7:44 am
As a pediatrician interested in neurodevelopment and the causes of autistic spectrum disorders, AND in favor of vaccinating children against deadly infections, it is surprising and disheartening that the opinions of pediatricians and developmental experts do not seem to be receiving much media coverage. It’s great to see parents in the community educate each other about the science behind the hype, but I wish more scientists/pediatricians/developmentalists were involved in educating the general public and countering the claims of the anti-vaccine movement…
John Gilmore
Mar 8, 2008 at 8:36 am
Kristina,
You seem to place great faith in the representations made by government authorities. Doesn’t it bother you that the DOJ, HHS, CDC and HRSA are all making demonstrably inaccurate statements about Hannah Poling?
And what makes you think that this “one case” isn’t applicable to many more children?
John
John
Emily
Mar 8, 2008 at 10:31 am
She was born with the mitochondrial disorder. Ergo, it is wholly accurate to describe it as “pre-existing.” It has, in fact, existed since the child was conceived.
Emily
Mar 8, 2008 at 10:38 am
Unless, of course, you are implying that she somehow had an organelle transplant into all of her somatic cells that occurred after she received the vaccinations.
There are several things that make this case not applicable to very many children at all, if any. The two primary ones are that this child has an OXPHOS-based disorder and that she received nine vaccinations at one time at age 18 months. If anyone should have awarded money from anyone to anyone, perhaps it should have been the parents to themselves for agreeing to that, or the pediatrician to the parents for the same. I’ve read on a blog and cannot say how accurate it is that this child had a series of fevers prior to having these shots. I think Kristina has accurately characterized this scenario.
What bothers me is the further example provided above of people’s willingness to believe a grand conspiracy theory targeting the “medical establishment” (evil doctors, all), the “government” (which includes several agencies jealous of their individual jurisdictions, but hey…they’re colluding here, right?), the World Health Organization (commie bastards), and all of us poor, gullible parents who subject our babies to these agents of toxicity, unwitting collaborators in this vast conspiracy. And, of course, the evil machinators of the entire thing: the drug companies. I believe Jonas Salk was, in fact, the Mastermind of it all.
I’m curious: in your two days with the Polings, did they behave as they do in the video they’ve allowed to be made and released of their minor daughter that has been splashed all over the World Wide Web? The one in their hotel room. That’s a real eye opener.
Samantha Pierce
Mar 8, 2008 at 11:05 am
“And what makes you think that this “one case” isn’t applicable to many more children?”
Just curious as to what makes you think that this one case may be applicable to many more children (as is implied by your question quoted above)?
Joseph
Mar 8, 2008 at 11:07 am
There is no evidence that their daughter had a “pre-existing condition.”
How about the fact that the mom has a mitochondrial dysfunction? That seems like pretty good evidence to me.
For those who suggest that thimerosal might cause mitochondrial disorder (an extraordinary claim without any foundation, not even anecdotal AFAIK, except that it was previously proposed that autism might be caused by thimerosal) it shouldn’t be hard to check. Mitochondrial disorder can be objectively diagnosed, and it should be possible to check birth cohorts before and after 2001 to see if phasing out of thimerosal had any effects on rates. Of course, it seems silly to even spend the effort into something like that when it’s easy to foresee what the results will be.
Joseph
Mar 8, 2008 at 11:09 am
Doesn’t it bother you that the DOJ, HHS, CDC and HRSA are all making demonstrably inaccurate statements about Hannah Poling?
Such as?
The NYTimes misportrays the autism “debate”
Mar 8, 2008 at 5:23 pm
[…] and Shreffler represent only one group of parents, the New York Times incorrectly represents the debate over the vaccine-autism link and also misrepresents the views of all parents of autistic children. […]
Deb K
Mar 9, 2008 at 1:41 am
I agree with John Gilmore.He is on target for me. Mom of Autistic Girl twin Brother is fine Hmmm. This is unusual isnt it?( Someone explain ) John hope this doesn’t Discredit you :)they dislike my opinions on this site!! Thanks Deb K
Emily
Mar 9, 2008 at 2:04 pm
It’s a fraternal twin brother, obviously, or he’d be a girl, so no, it wouldn’t be unusual at all for him not to have autism, even with an assumption that autism is 100% genetic, an assumption that I don’t think anybody is making. His risk of autism is higher (1 in 10, if I remember correctly), but that obviously doesn’t mean the child will have autism. And no, it’s not unusual. Fraternal twins are like other non-twin siblings except that they are born at the same time. They’re conceived via two separate fertilization events, just like any brother and sister.
I’m thinking that you’re confusing this with identical twins, with whom there is an expectation that there would be high condordance rates in regards to autism (i.e., more situations in which both members of the pair would have the same disorder; with 100% inheritance, you’d expect 100% condordance–obviously, that does not apply to autism).
And there are higher rates of both identical twins having autism. I actually know a pair myself who are both autistic. Their sister, three years younger, is not. I have two sons who are on the spectrum and one who is not.
Bottom line: No, there is no expectation whatsoever that a fraternal twin would have the same genetically based disorder as the other twin, even if inheritance were 100%.
Deb K
Mar 10, 2008 at 12:18 am
Hi, Thanks for the thoughts.Since 10 boys for every one girl seem to have Autism as of 2007 this still makes no sense.Being a mom of boy girl twins I know all about the faternal aspect.I think this case is very rare. I have boy girl twin friends around the corner boy has Autism! I know 2 more sets and both have it.I would love to see some study about this. Lucky that it didn’t happen to both. Have only 1 grandparent left and he’s disabled. My husband has myofasial pain syndrome. I may have needed pills to help me through (wow!)
Deb K
Mar 10, 2008 at 12:21 am
Oh,the other 2 sets are boy girl also. Thanks again
Donna
Mar 10, 2008 at 12:36 am
If not vaccines or vaccine related injury, then what? Is there any other empirically based evidence suggesting another causal factor? They found no evidence of genetic mutation or fragile X? Why is the incidence rate increasing so dramatically? Surely, it is not merely a result of better diagnostics. My son did not show signs of perserveration of behavior, lack of eye contact, social skills, etc…until 24 months. At eight months, he was unusually socially interactive and would iniate play with other children at his daycare. He cruised furniture at 6 months and walked at 9 months. He was speaking in 3 to 4 word sentences at 18 months. An “ages and stages” assessment was done at 20 months where he was developmentally right on schedule. His only health issue was several cases of bronchiolitus from 8 months onward. Incidentally, with all of his vaccinations from 6 months on, he would develop a hard lump at the injection site that would last for a month. I was told this was normal. Two months after his innoculation at 15 months, he had a bout of “viral synovitis” where he was unable to stand without pain from synovial swelling in his right hip (same leg as injection)for a week. After his next and final set of shots at 18 months, he developed synovitis yet again after 7 days. Then 3 months later he started playing with his feces. He stopped making eye contact or calling me mommy. I realized he was no longer verbalizing at all. I think there may be a case for vaccine related injury for a subset of children displaying autistic traits. I believe that children should be vaccinated, provided they suffer no ill effects, such as my daughter. I could not bring myself to get his shots at 4 years. My doctor suggested I get a “religious” exemption, until I brought the episodes of synovitis to his attention. Maybe it was the bronchiolitus and his immune system was weak? Maybe the pediatricians were not as diligent about his physical health and more concerned with the mandated dosing schedule that the state requires and daycares must conform to. Maybe, until recently, pediatricians were not as attuned to vaccine related events/injury and have underutilized the VAERS database. I am not a rabid conspiracy buff, but for me the jury is still out as to the role of vaccines. Why not, err on the side of caution, and at least space out the dosing schedule. Julian was and is a beautiful boy, but I would love to talk to him again. I would like family members and other children to treat him as a person and not a freak because he cannot speak to them, walks into pools, and dumps cartons of juice on the floor. And I would like to know what, in the alternative, caused him to develop developmental challenges seemingly overnight?
Kristina Chew, PhD
Mar 10, 2008 at 1:36 am
@John Gilmore,
“And what makes you think that this “one case” isn’t applicable to many more children?”
The use of the word “rare” as in “rare mitochondrial disorder” suggests that this case is not “applicable to many more children.”
Deb K
Mar 10, 2008 at 10:35 am
I do remember reading a while ago about the use of antibiotics and shot times too close to one another.This is something we should all google again.I am a creative thinker and I ponder over things. She had a few antibiotics around the same time as the shots. She also had bowel issues start at the same time.I always thougt this might be an answer for some of the kids! This also could be why she has trouble with many foods. We are GFCF and adding more vitamins carefully to her diet and skin.She has been much better and even danced for me the last few weeks.Its so fun to see her improve.Kristina and others dont give up on the diet idea it works for alot of kids.I have a great woman in Toms river that has helped me with the diet.She has a Autistic son thats doing so well because of the diet. He is now 18( Keep the faith )some great new products out now. By organic fruits & veggies this helps with the toxic load. They do taste better the kids eat them easier.
Deb K
Mar 10, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Donna, I also had similar issues with my daughter.I read this all over the internet!! This scares me.She had all the genetic work ups every 4 years NOTHING comes up just the insurance rates for the whole state. My daughter would never run she did a skip and drag with one foot. Reflux, horrible sleep ,paterns zoning out loss of speech ear infections you name it. You are not alone. OH very important for all of you.She also had candidia in her esoughegus this kid suffered oh my! This was found out at 6 yrs old by her Gastro Doc. Nystatin helped tremendously. Hope I can shed some light and help. We are all in the same boat paddling in Autism lake.
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