About This “Autism Dilemma”
Health journalist Alison Rose Levy considers the “debate” about vaccines and autism in the wake of celebrity Jenny McCarthy’s recent appearance on Larry King Live. According to Levy in today’s Huffington Post, there is an “autism dilemma” afoot, in which parents of autistic children speak emotionally and from the heart about what they think (a vaccine, for instance) “caused” their child to become autistic, while “aloof doctors” listen and respond with well-reasoned appeals to the evidence of science. Noting that she is “trying to understand the passion on the ‘pro-vaccination’ side,” Levy writes:
The underlying fear and anger towards these parents suggests that it’s somehow heretical to question any proffering of scientific “proof” even when it squares off with experience–in this case, parents’ tragic and oft repeated experience of watching hundreds of thousands of children immediately deteriorate upon vaccination.
As these two different and valid kinds of evidence collide, the collision should awaken the spirit of scientific inquiry. Instead it’s viewed as a threat.
I’m not quite sure where Levy’s figure of “hundreds of thousands” of children who have “deteriorated” after receiving a vaccine is from. This issue of a hypothetical vaccine-autism link gets a great deal of attention in the media and online, but it is not the central issue about autism for many parents and families of autistic children, and to many autistic adults themselves.
That said, I found Levy’s post about the “autism dilemma” very helpful. Being more than a bit informed about the issue of vaccines and autism, I was glad to know how Levy—and more of the general public—view this issue. Levy’s post suggests that many parents of autistic children believe in a vaccine-autism link, when, in truth, parents are hardly a unified bloc on this issue.
Levy notes that each autistic child is an individual, who might respond differently to different treatments and to vaccines and other hypothetical causes of autism:
“….every single autistic child serves as a living human reminder that we need to account for individual differences, multiplier factors, and human complexity–and adjust our scientific model and attendant belief systems accordingly.”
It must be emphasized again that “every single” parent of “every single autistic child does not believe in the notion that vaccines or something in vaccines had anything to do with their becoming autistic. I’m one of those parents, as is Kathleen Seidel, who has recently been subpoenaed by Clifford Shoemaker, a lawyer who represents vaccine injury plaintiffs Rev. Lisa Sykes and Seth Sykes against Bayer and other companies (here is a video response about the subpoena).
But while the vaccine-autism issue can be divisive, parents can certainly agree that “every single autistic child” needs to be educated and taught to achieve their potential, and this can be costly, and programs need to be individualized (for young children, for middle schoolers and high schoolers, for adults as the case may be). And how we can fund these programs and support teachers and therapists: This is a dilemma to address, indeed.
Tags: asd, asperger, autism, Health, jenny mccarthy, measles, mercury, middle school, mmr, Parenting, pdd-nos, shots, VaccinesRelated Stories
POSTED IN: Cause, Education, Media, Parenting, Science, Vaccines
44 opinions for About This “Autism Dilemma”
Emily
Apr 7, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Can someone please start a new completely unfounded rumor about cause of autism? I’m absolutely weary of this vaccine business. Do you think we could get someone to publish a paper stating that they’ve found a link between waking up too early on a Saturday and regressive autism so that at least we have something else to talk about? Later, 90% of the authors on the paper can withdraw from authorship and the lead author can get into all kinds of legal and medical hot water and be completely debunked by medical science, but at least we’ll have spent the ensuing decade talking about something DIFFERENT.
I never ONCE see a reference to autism in the news media without also seeing a reference to vaccines. No one mentions the valid, scientifically verified potential links, such as various genes. It’s just vaccines vaccines vaccines, often without any kind of caveat. In fact, I saw exactly that today in my city’s paper. “Autism” and “vaccines” are now considered so hand in glove that fighting the “conventional wisdom” on this alleged link is impossible. This will be as difficult to overturn despite valid scientific grounds as was the “link” between miasma and cholera.
And for what it’s worth, anecdotal observation simply isn’t as valid as controlled scientific studies examining mechanisms and applying appropriate comparisons and statistics. Look at all the people who were so convinced about the manifold benefits of vitamin C against head colds. And the whole world was convinced that “miasma” caused cholera, in the face of abundant and accumulating scientific data to the contrary, and the delay in acknowledging what science was saying about it cost thousands and thousands of lives. Much more is at stake here and now when we speak of vaccines and the possibility of outbreaks of not one but many deadly diseases.
Regan
Apr 7, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Switch the paragraph around a little,
“… The underlying fear and anger towards these doctors suggests that it’s somehow heretical to question any proffering of anecdotal evidence even when it does not square off with scientific “proof”–in this case, the continued lack, or improbability of association of autism to vaccines.
As these two different… kinds of evidence collide, the collision should awaken the spirit of scientific inquiry. Instead it’s viewed as a threat…”
————————
I’ve already put forth my somewhat gloomy thesis that people will yell about their pet hypotheses, and demand their rights until vaccines just go away. In that case we’ll find out who is right.
Hold on, it may be a bumpy ride.
Marla
Apr 7, 2008 at 7:38 pm
My husband jokes that wearing seat belts is the cause of Autism. Since when we were kids we just moved about freely in the car. Now that kids are being belted in early on he says that may be the cause. ;) In joking of course! We know that vaccines do not cause Autism. The facts are there.
passionlessDrone
Apr 7, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Hello friends -
I think the problems with why this is a debate are multi faceted.
My son who has autism did not experience a drastic regression post vaccine; but I know at least one family who did. Their child was speaking in full sentences on the day he got five vaccinations; and did not speak again for a full year. To the day. These people are not crazy.
Now while this could be a coincidence, people tend not to believe in coincidences of such magnitude; especially when there are thousands of other people who report the same thing.
I can think of two other instances where people I knew learned that my son had autism and the very first thing they told me was, ‘My college roomate/brother roomate has a child with autism; they told me that he/she got vaccinated, and was never the same’.
It is exceedingly simple to dismiss as crazy people who you do not know who seem to espouse a theory that regulatory agencies say is impossible; but it is much, much more difficult to dismiss your family members, or good friends as crazy. The simple fact of the matter is that there is a growing body of people who personally know someone who tell precisely the same story, my child was speaking, looking at me, playing appropriately one day, and stopped the day after they were vaccinated.
The second problem is that the regulatory agencies have a big, big credibility problem. No doubt, the individuals working for these agencies are smart and caring people; but that doesn’t make them infallible.
In the last few years, there has been a spate of news stories that have disturbed trust in these agencies. Recently, we were told not to give our children cold and/or cough medicine; it had been grandfathered in without safety, or efficacy testing. We were literally told for decades that these substances were safe to use; and then came to find out they hadn’t actually been tested in children under two. There have been many others.
When people hear this, and see (or know) someone who says their child regressed after being vaccinated, their first instinct it to not trust the large, faceless regulatory agency; which coincidentally is in charge of both safety testing, and insuring mass distribution of the same product.
Anyways, theres more, but it’s getting late.
Good luck everyone!
- pD
H6
Apr 7, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Emily,
Will this do? It’s a somewhat “founded rumor,” so to speak:
HHV-6 is the cause of some/many/most cases of autism. (It is also the cause of some/many/most cases of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.)
The debate about HHV-6/autism will not make you weary.
Even if the only result of a debate about this is an increased awareness about HHV-6, it will make the world a better place. And maybe, just maybe, it will improve the lives of people with autism.
When I say “somewhat founded,” I mean this:
http://members.jorsm.com/~binstock/hhv6.htm
daedalus2u
Apr 7, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Emily, I have better than a rumor, I have the real “cause”, low nitric oxide in utero causes the characteristic neuroanatomy, and low NO following an acute immune system stimulation causes the regression, and low NO maintains the autism phenotype.
Anything that causes low NO will cause autism. Mitochondrial abnormalities cause oxidative stress, the major symptom of which is low NO.
Low NO increases testosterone synthesis by disinhibiting the cytochrome P450 enzyme that is the rate limiting step. High testosterone reduces NO by producing superoxide during its metabolism. Estrogen increases NO by the estrogen receptor activating nitric oxide synthase. The gender related differences in NO is what causes the 4 to 1 male excess of ASDs.
When you increase NO (as with an acute fever), ASD symptoms sometimes get better.
Stress lowers NO and that causes ASD symptoms to get worse.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 7, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Maybe it’s computers are the cause—–
Kathy
Apr 7, 2008 at 10:02 pm
I think passionlessDrone makes a good point.
” It is exceedingly simple to dismiss as crazy people people who you do not know who seem to espouse a theory that regulatory agencies say is impossible; but it is much, much more difficult to dismiss your family members or friends as crazy…….”
I too, know personally of one incident where an (already diagnosed) autistic child, severely regressed the day after having his MMR vaccinations.
What speech he had was lost.
It took his mother 12 months to make up the lost ground.
I know this woman very well, she was my son’s first therapist,(Precision teaching) and last year received her doctorate for her dissertation,
The Child Knows Best:
The Strategies and Tactics of Accelerated Learning.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 7, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Perhaps one things the autism “dilemma/debate/dialogue” does is to lead us to reconsider what is meant by “crazy,” “weird,” “bizarre,” “odd”; “normal.”
Jill
Apr 7, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Perhaps I have a way of looking at the glass half full but the autism vaccination link will never go away until the actual causes are known. I think it is wonderful that research is being done in so many different areas and I can’t help but think it is because many researchers are even more driven to find the actual causes. btw- I received a call from AGRE yesterday and they are scheduled to come to my home to observe my children next month. We donated blood last October and I hope many of you take time to visit their website and sign up for research. At the time I signed up, they were looking for families that had more than one affected child.
Phil Schwarz
Apr 7, 2008 at 10:36 pm
The autism epidemic is an act of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster for more background) — wrathful over the steady decline in the number of pirates on the planet.
Draw your own conclusions about the implied parallels.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 7, 2008 at 10:39 pm
I’m struck by so much in this topic turns on the issue of what people believe; how we’re all trying to understand how things are the way they are.
Regan
Apr 7, 2008 at 11:25 pm
cognitive dissonance and post hoc ergo propter hoc
Can agree with you more about the need for a big mouth celeb to get on the tube and holler,
“Education is IMPORTANT! These guys can learn and work and participate! It’s supposed to be INDIVIDUAL!! Goals drive placement!”
(I’d even watch Larry King if that happened.)
Chuck
Apr 7, 2008 at 11:28 pm
The OCD of people pushing their causes like NO, genetics, environment, pseudo-science, pseudo-religions will never end because none of these will ever be scientifically proven as a casual agent for the majority of individuals with the psychological disorder currently defined as ASD. The constant reiterations of diagnostic criteria from one DSM to another have always been subjectively determined based on the thinking of the day. Today’s diagnostic criteria are more confusing rather than more refined and descriptive then the last set of criteria. “Better awareness” didn’t create the situation we are in today, the inability to create a diagnosis that will differentiate did.
Regan
Apr 7, 2008 at 11:57 pm
“The OCD of people”
Do we have consensus?
Chuck, I agree with you that the diagnostic criteria and method of diagnosis is a mess. I heard that there are some who are speculating that the next DSM may remove language delay and stereotypy as a criteria for autism. I don’t know how true that is, but if so, I anticipate another jump in prevalence.
Even in Eleanor’s EI classroom of 20 the range of abilities and deficits was so large that a casual observer might have been hard pressed to say that all these kids were given the same diagnosis.
We might disagree on quite a few points, but I do agree there. A little more differentiation would be useful.
C. S. Wyatt
Apr 8, 2008 at 1:17 am
I have at least 15 causes of the symptomology we call “autism” in my research database. These are only the known causes, accounting for less than half of cases.
I have posted my own critiques of the DSM and misunderstandings the public has about the DSM as a symptom-based text, not a neurological text.
I have started, with my dept. chair’s support, posting my dissertation lit review work online due to its topic. I spent two years studying the “definition” of autism so we could be “accurate” when testing educational approaches. You need a consistent definition for any empirical study.
I ended up also writing 50 pages on how the university should define autism for ADA compliance. No, we can’t use just any diagnosis to determine services.
Science is about testing and testing again. We never assume an answer is “right” forever. But we do know that “wrong” is wrong.
I regressed after a seizure, as did Tammet. That proves nothing. It suggests something to study but proves no causation. Comorbidity is merely a clue.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 8, 2008 at 1:34 am
More than looking forward to your dissertation—–
“the OCD of people”—a phrase I will remember—
KC'sMommy
Apr 8, 2008 at 4:08 am
We should be spending the money on education! My son should be in a school that can teach him, instead he’s being homeschooled by me. Stop blaming the vaccines and spending huge amounts of money when it could be going towards programs/education for Autistic kiddos.
We have to help our kids here and now.
I still can’t stand Jenny, she’s so darn pushy to the point of obnoxious, does she really think she’s some sort of doctor?
Liz Ditz
Apr 8, 2008 at 5:25 am
I mentioned this post in the comments at Denialism, which was strongly critical of the Levy article.
RAJ
Apr 8, 2008 at 7:26 am
Emily wrote:
“Can someone please start a new completely unfounded rumor about cause of autism”?
How about ‘genes cause autism”‘.
You do realize that no ‘autism causing gene’ has ever been identifed. In complex multifactorial conditions (eg ASD) involving interactions between susceptability genes and environmental insults claiming to have discovered an ‘autism gene’ has as little scientific basis as the ‘vaccine theory’.
Here is a challenge, name one ‘autism causing gene’ and I’ll gladly explain why the research community has misinterpreted their own data.
passionlessDrone
Apr 8, 2008 at 8:10 am
Hi Daedulus2u -
I’m liking your low NO theory more and more. I’m curious if you’ve put together anything that details some of the other known autism biomarkers to NO states.
Phil - Nice touch re: TFSM
- pD
Emily
Apr 8, 2008 at 9:07 am
RAJ, I’ve never said that only “genes cause autism.” I have always said that autism likely has a multifactorial etiology and in fact likely has several etiologies that lead to what we view as the same disorder. You must be thinking of someone else. I have also said that “Vaccines do not cause autism.” And I’ll say it again. “Vaccines, based on an abundance of scientific evidence, do not cause autism.”
Here’s a challenge: Try to get over the assumption that whenever anyone mentions the word “gene,” they’re talking about the “broad autism phenotype” or “genes only.” We’re not.
Chuck
Apr 8, 2008 at 9:29 am
Maybe a better statement would be
Vaccines, based on the current scientific evidence, do not reach the scientific threshold of causation for autism based on the current diagnosis criteria for autistic spectrum disorders.
Jill
Apr 8, 2008 at 9:46 am
To Phil- I love the Spaghetti Monster theory. Do you read the Daily Kos? That is when I first discovered it. That just cracks me up.
Emily
Apr 8, 2008 at 9:57 am
My students find Pastafarianism very attractive. They always bring it up when we discuss “Intelligent” design and evolution. We even have Flying Spaghetti Monster “Fish” on some of the cars around here, along with regular Christian fish, “Darwin” fish, “Gefilte” fish, and even a “Jeebus” fish.
ebohlman
Apr 8, 2008 at 10:12 am
passionlessDrone: Nobody here is asserting that parents who believe vaccination caused their kid’s autism are “crazy.” Rather, we’re asserting that they’ve jumped to a faulty conclusion, something that human being are extremely prone to doing. Our brains are wired to detect patterns and connections, so much so that they’ll find them even when they aren’t their. And those false associations feel right, and that feeling is especially intense if the “association” involves a perceived threat to one’s own offspring.
The whole point of the scientific method is to counteract our cognitive biases which make us prone to jumping to conclusions. That’s why scientific findings are often “counterintuitive” as they are in this case. Our gut feelings are often wrong (though we have a hard time believing this because our brains are wired to remember the times when they were right and forget the times when they were wrong).
Artemisia
Apr 8, 2008 at 10:31 am
My son’s progress is due almost exclusively to education interventions; obviously, I’m on the front line advocating for that. And for continuation of high quality interventions and assistance that allows for kids to live full and productive lives.
But I really don’t understand the hostility here towards parents who believe that vaccines are a plausible cause of their children’s autism. You must have read the studies - every one of them is a mess of manipulation and misdesign. Even if autism is proven unequivocally to be caused by something else, those studies are a disgrace, and so is the medical community citing them as a good reason to inject children with a known neurotoxin when it’s not medically necessary.
And, for the record, every autism parent I know (most with children from 12-17) assumes that vaccines played a large part in their children’s autism. Of course there are autism parents who think it’s nonsense, but frankly, I don’t know any of them IRL. You may consider them lunatics, but they aren’t the fringe.
jess
Apr 8, 2008 at 11:38 am
OK OK OK! I am about ready to pull all my hair out! I’m totally frustrated, confused and overloaded with information. My daughter is due for her MMR in just a matter of weeks. I’ve already spoken to my Ped. and he assures me there is no link, which is something I want to believe and this is why I frequent this blog. I must say also frequent others where people are 100% positive that vaccine MMR being a major one that caused their childs autism. My Pediatrician suggest that the numbers have risen 1 in 140 or around there because there is such a larger spectrum now what they are calling autism now was not called the same years ago so he says obviously if you are adding other characteristics to the diagnosis than you will have higher numbers. Ok that sounds logical but why am I still not at ease? I know that I’m spending a lot of time worrying or concerning myself with something that has not happened yet but I’m just trying to understand and get the facts, there just does not seem to be any really solid facts out there. I know we all love our children but I really don’t want my daughter to slip away before my eyes as people have described. I’m torn and I don’t know what to do. I have not read studies about children with autism that have not had vaccines. I suppose they will come as more and more people stop vaccinating. HELP!!!!! I’m going crazy.
Bink
Apr 8, 2008 at 11:48 am
I’ve posted about this before, and maybe it’s a point that’s only of interest to me, but, I keep wondering where the videotapes are. We live in an age where many if not most of us have digital cameras and videocameras. I know that my children’s lives are ludicrously over-documented. If my child gets a weird rash and I’m afraid it’s an allergic reaction that might clear up by the time he gets to the doctor, I take a picture of it. (Seriously, I just found old pictures of my kid’s rashy little butt on my computer and had to delete them!) So, if hundreds of thousands of parents have seen sudden, dramatic changes in their children literally the day after vaccination, where are all the videos showing this? That would be the absolutely first thing that would spring to my mind to do, to have a datestamped piece of evidence.
H6
Apr 8, 2008 at 12:01 pm
The woman who started the HHV-6 Foundation started it because her children had what looked like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and she was convinced that with better testing for HHV-6, the virus would be recognized as a pathogen that was a key to her chilldren’s illness.
Her intuition seems to have been on the money and her foundation has made tremendous progress and HHV-6 is now recognized a major issue in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, AIDS, MS and many other medical problems.
Given that it has been identified as an issue in autism, it’s surprising that the autism community is not taking it more seriously.
Is that because identifying it as part of the autism puzzle would support the notion that there is an autism epidemic and that one of the factors is transmissible? Is that a forbidden thought that will prevent anyone from looking at HHV-6?
That’s one of the reasons a big portion of the CFS community won’t deal with HHV-6. And it may be holding back progress in the understanding of CFS.
Th HHV-6 Foundation has come a long way. The issues being discussed at this upcoming conference show how versatile and destructive this virus is:
http://www.hhv-6conference.com/
Knowing that there is a good chance an autistic child has an active or latent infection with this devastating virus, I’m surprised it isn’t getting more attention from parents. There may actually be a treatment for the virus, or things one can do to counter its effects.
Only time will tell if HHV-6 ends up in the dustbin with the vaccine theory. Let science figure it out, but at least encourage the investigation.
I don’t know how one dismisses this from Teresa Binstock: “In recent years a number of parents have sent me immune-panels, medical
charts, and medical histories of their autism-spectrum child. Remarkably, most
of these immune panels report various immune atypicalities, such as (i) atypical
elevations of IgG antibodies against common pathogens (eg, CMV, EBV, and/or
HHV6), (ii) missing antibodies against a vaccinal antigen, and (iii) other signs
of immune dysfunctin (eg, reduced NK cell count, impaired NK function, etc).”
http://members.jorsm.com/~binstock/hhv6.htm
(I don’t know if this is of interest to the NO theory of autism, but AIDS, CFS and autism are medical problems that may be linked to oxidative stress and that stress might be caused by an active HHV-6 infection.)
Chuck
Apr 8, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Bink,
Two simple answeres to where are the videos:
1) Lots of digital pictures, no digital video
2) I don’t take pictures when my children are sick because I am to busy taking care of them.
Emily
Apr 8, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Don’t know, Bink, but we do have video of our children showing early signs.
Bink
Apr 8, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Me too. Took me a looonnngg time to accept that, though.
daedalus2u
Apr 8, 2008 at 2:26 pm
PD, as far as I have been able to determine, every single symptom commonly associated with autism is explained by low NO. None of the explanations are “simple” because NO physiology is not “simple”. There are thousands of pathways that are coupled and non-linear at multiple different length and time scales with feedback and hysteresis.
Low NO does cause neuronal hyperplasia, the most consistent symptom of ASDs is a larger brain.
Low NO does cause reduced blood flow because it is NO that causes vasodilation of cerebral blood vessels.
daedalus2u
Apr 8, 2008 at 2:30 pm
One of the major transcription factors involved in the immune system is NFkB which is inhibited by NO.
Processing of proteins into antigens is controlled in part by pH in the lysosome where the proteolysis and attachment to MHC occurs. That is regulated by the state of oxidative stress which is regulated by NO.
Regan
Apr 8, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Jess,
I don’t know what to tell you, except that it is info overload.
My older daughter had an MMR and does not have autism. The 3 young children next door had the MMR and are just fine. The elementary school across the street has several hundred children who had MMR shots and are fine. The typical after school program that my autistic daughter attends has several hundred children who have had MMR vaccinations and are also just fine.
I am not a doctor, and I’m glad that you are having these conversations with yours.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 8, 2008 at 5:47 pm
@Jess,
I understand how you feel, which might not seem likely from what I’ve written. But let me say this.
Charlie received the MMR at 18 months; his development was already delayed (at that point, his gross motor skills most). We knew Charlie was autistic just around the time of his 2nd birthday.
But when Charlie’s 5th birthday came he did not get his 2nd MMR shot. Of course he had a clear diagnosis then but I had that gnawing voice saying “what if what if [it could make him regress].” One part of me knew these fears were not well thought out and unfounded.
Then we moved to a school district that insisted on children having all the vaccines. Charlie had to go to school—that was obvious—-and so I took him in for
Kathleen Seidel Has Received a Sub-Poena: Streisand, Spartacus, Shoemaker, They Start with S and End the Same Way « Holford Watch: Patrick Holford, nutritionism and bad science
Apr 8, 2008 at 6:04 pm
[…] (ghastly version of What’s It All About, Alfie - yet effective) Kristina Chew of Autism Vox About This “Autism Dilemma” mentions Seidel and links to another video Update 8 April Holford Myths (eponymous) Clay Shirky and […]
jess
Apr 8, 2008 at 9:54 pm
So Kristina you were nervous at that time about possible regression, but now you believe different correct? Does anyone understand why Autism occurs more often in boys than girls? Could this be a gene thing as well?
Liquid Zeolite
Apr 8, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Vaccines cause autism only if the child can’t eliminate the toxins from the body and the known neuro-toxins are allowed to build-up in the brain. Why don’t Amish kids develop Autism? Because they don’t get vaccinated. Why did Bush give Eli Lilly et al immunity from litigation for their vaccines in the Homedland Security Act (last 4 provisions)? Because Bush know vaccines have damaged countless millions. But hey, it’s okay because it’s part of his new world order population control agenda, right?
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 8, 2008 at 10:15 pm
@Jess,
Yes I was nervous but it was not good thinking on my part—note that this was when Charlie was 5 and clearly autistic—when he was a toddler, he had all his vaccines. Charlie had no reaction to the MMR when he got it as a toddler.
We knew that vaccines had not caused Charlie to be autistic—-he was a very different baby from birth. But I think all the reports in the news troubled me, and I’m glad that I have since done a lot more thinking and reading and realize that my worries were very much unfounded and illogical. We had tested and he had antibodies still for (I think) mumps but not for measles or rubella.
When he was 5, Charlie also had a lot of trouble at doctor’s offices and I knew we’d have to (sigh) hold him down to give him a shot. He did have the chicken pox vaccine and then caught a very mild case—-this was fortunate, as I would not have been able to stop him from scratching himself if he’d had a bad case.
This is from the National Autistic Society about why there are more boys with autism than girls.
jess
Apr 9, 2008 at 10:26 am
See there is Liquid saying don’t vaccinate. Perhaps I need to stop looking on line and just listen to my dr. I just have that little twing in the back of my mind…
Patrick
Apr 9, 2008 at 4:43 pm
So you’re going to trust someone who puts a shameless commercial product plug name and link as a comment?
I hope not.
Even if the fears were true, the odds are currently standing at 150 to 1.
jess
Apr 9, 2008 at 5:54 pm
No I’m not saying I’m going to trust them. I’m saying it is people and products and sites like that that tend to instill the fear and anxiety.
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