DIY Chelation: Not Recommended
Says Hilary Godwin, chair of environmental health sciences at UCLA and the mother of an autistic son in a June 16th LA Times article about the dangers of over-the-counter chelating products:
“Parental anxiety drives people to try anything.”
Anything and everything (including a certain kind of enema), all in the name of detoxifying autistic children’s bodies of supposed excessive heavy metals, toxins, and so forth. Dr. Michael Shannon, chief of emergency medicine at Children’s Hospital in Boston and a specialist in lead poisoning, says this about the dangers of over-the-counter—”do it yourself”—chelators:
Chelation is sometimes necessary to treat severe cases of metal poisoning, but it’s “shocking and worrisome” that such products are sold over the counter…………..
According to Shannon, chelation agents have several drawbacks that make them too risky to use without close guidance from a physician. Compounds such as DMSA [dimercaptosuccinic acid] and EDTA [ethylene diamine tetra-acetic acid] aren’t very choosy when it comes to binding to metals, so they’ll wash out important metals such as iron, calcium and manganese along with mercury and lead. Chelation agents can also be toxic to the liver. And if a person really does have an overload of lead or mercury, Shannon says the top priority should be removing the source of the metal, not taking a pill. If chelation is necessary, it should be done by a doctor who specializes in treatment for poisoning.
EDTA capsules have another shortcoming, Shannon says. Unlike DMSA, the compound isn’t easily absorbed through the digestive system, which is why doctors deliver it through an IV. “There’s no evidence that it works when taken orally,” he says.
The hypothesis that vaccines or something in vaccines (such as mercury) can be linked to autism provides the rationale for chelating treatments. The thought is that, by expelling toxic “heavy metals” out of a child’s system, that child can start to “heal” and even “recover” from autism. But chelation has more than a few risks; and at least one autistic child has died while undergoing chelation treatment. Chelation is not an approved treatment for autism.
The very notion that by expelling certain “toxic” elements, a child can be “healed” and can become no longer autistic, is dangerous. This equates autism with something toxic and poisonous; getting the autism out of a person via a treatment such as chelation seems tantamount to an exorcism. Besides the risks involved in chelation therapy itself, chelation is dangerous because it reinforces the idea that autism is something harmful and to be feared. But it’s not autism that is the enemy here but misinformed notions of what autism is, and of what autistic people need.
Parental anxiety is a powerful thing and perhaps we need to exercise more care in how we use it.
Tags: asd, asperger, autism, autism blog, chelation, detox, disabilities blog, Family, family blog, heavy metals enema, lead poisoning, Parenting, pdd-nos
118 opinions for DIY Chelation: Not Recommended
David H. Payne
Jun 14, 2008 at 2:51 am
Any medical treatment not supervised by a trained clinician is dangerous and this should be obvious to anyone with a high school degree. I am not exactly sure who you are quoting but the idea of leaving ehtyl mercury in your brain is point blank stupid, especailly when you have an opportunity to remove it by chelation, which can be done safely.
Also as a matter of prudence and completeness I think that I should mention that Autism is something that should be feared. Autism is a nice way of saying brain injury. This is a crippling and devastating disease for the child and the family that without any doubt is iatrogenic in most cases and is probably an autoimmune disease that is exacerbated by the presence of heavy metals.
Your assertion that a time tested medical procedure such as chelation, which has been used succesfully in a variety of medical illnesses, is analagous to a religous ritual is patently abusrd and should be disregarded by any reader as pure nonesense.
Finally it has been well documented in the dental literature that amalgum fillings that contain lead can precipitate CNS dysfunction and people that exhibit such signs and symptoms recover their neurological integrity with the removal of these lead filled implants.
Kristina you really need to read more and to discourse with people who are more literate and better informed.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jun 14, 2008 at 2:54 am
Autism is a neurological disorder or, if one would rather, disability. It’s not caused by mercury “poisoning,” in dental amalgams or from other sources.
Cliff
Jun 14, 2008 at 3:53 am
“Autism is a nice way of saying brain injury.”
This is highly contested statement, easily said, and certainly here.
It’s also contested whether one is actually leaving ethyl mercury in the brain, as are the fillings. Further, it’s hardly as if chelation is time-tested as to autism (where even the basic underlying assumptions aren’t even solid).
But I’ll admit you actually annoyed me, and here’s why;
“Kristina you really need to read more and to discourse with people who are more literate and better informed.”
This point really should be simple enough. In such forms, it is customary to presume that your conversant is competent, and then to be proven wrong. Kristina has presented herself here consistently as extremely well-informed, amongst the most literate individuals I have ever had the pleasure of reading from, and highly thoughtful and considerate. To dismiss her out of hand like that is nothing short of revolting. I’d be wary of making such statements again, if you ever want to present a message.
Cliff
Storkdok
Jun 14, 2008 at 7:38 am
Back in the 1980s a patient of my father’s died because of chelation therapy. She would go down to Mexico for extra “treatments” for her cervical cancer. She died in the ER and the people trying to resuscitate her all collapsed and had to be rescued themselves by hazmat teams. The whole hospital was locked down, including my father and brother who were working there that day. Four of the ER personnel, who we knew personally, had permanent neurological damage because of the “fumes” that emitted from her drawn blood. It took almost a year to figure out what happened and was traced back to her chelation therapy, which underwent a chemical change and became a neurotoxin. The ER doctor was paralyzed on a ventilator for a week and has never fully recovered.
Andrea
Jun 14, 2008 at 8:21 am
I’ve had two people suggest chelation to me for my son. One just mentioned it in passing and was not pushy about it. The other was a nutritionist who did Nutrition Response Testing (there’s another name for it which is escaping me at the moment) where she concluded he had a heavy metal presence by watching if his arm dropped when she held certain homeopathic vials next to him. I might have even gone along with her recommendation IF she had been willing to tell me what she wanted to use so I could research it beforehand for safety. But she just expected me to take her at her word that he needed this treatment (which would have taken months) and that I should just blindly trust her. I think my husband actually offended her by asking what studies had been done to show safety and effectiveness. To my way of thinking anyone with any real credibility shouldn’t get upset about being asked for those credentials.
Now that I’ve done my own research on chelation, when we were looking into the DAN! protocol (which we’ve decided against), it seems a bit too risky to put a little body through. Ironic how people don’t want to put their kids on medication but will willingly (and fervently) put their kids through months of chelation.
Joseph
Jun 14, 2008 at 9:17 am
In studies of moderately lead toxic children, chelation with DMSA has not been found to be more effective than placebo. In fact, one such study suggested the possibility of cognitive impairment due to chelation. A study with rats also suggested there’s a possibility of brain damage.
It appears that chelation is only indicated in cases of severe heavy metal poisoning.
Furthermore, it’s unclear that chelating metals from the brain safely is feasible. DMSA cannot go through the BBB.
Of course, someone who is very much informed like Mr. Payne probably already knows all this.
Bink
Jun 14, 2008 at 9:20 am
Wow, did that first post come in a time machine from 2005?
Based on my recent conversations with biomed parents I know, and my readings of mass mailings done by the local DAN practitioners in my area, I thought chelation was passe. The big money is in HBOT now. You see, it takes a few years for us sad, desperate parents to realize something doesn’t really work. Even my most hardcore biomed friends have given up on chelation now. What your clever DANs do now is plunk down 20K for an HBOT chamber, then charge desperate, naive parents $400 an hour to stick their kids in it. It’s going to be a little harder these days, in this economy — parents (like me) of autistic kids can’t take out huge home equity loans or take a second mortgage on their houses as easily as we could a few years ago. But I’m sure DANs can simply gently suggest that parents like me hit up the grandparents for funds for the HBOT. That’ll probably work for a while. And in a few years when those families are all dead broke and are realizing HBOT doesn’t work, either, don’t worry, there will be something else by then for them to sell, and a whole new crop of desperate newbie parents who haven’t caught on yet. There always is.
Ruth
Jun 14, 2008 at 9:55 am
Exposure to some viruses or chemicals (valproic acid) can lead to autistic symptoms, if exposure is in the 1st trimester. Whatever developmental changes occur, occur early. Chelation can do nothing to change the fibers connecting parts of her brain. It won’t change the ratio of gray/white matter. My daughter is autistic, not poisoned. She is dyslexic, but otherwise does well in school. I wish her a happy, Payne-free life.
Emily
Jun 14, 2008 at 10:21 am
Ruth, that was hilarious.
You all have great, reasoned responses here. Andrea, your method (and your husband’s) is like mine has been. Same thought processes, same questions.
Karen
Jun 14, 2008 at 10:24 am
I know no one better informed on this subject than Kristina, Mr. Payne. I wish I had her knowledge and her patient personality; suggesting that autism is something that should be feared actually evoked violent feelings in me which were only remedied by the coincidental visit of my very un-scary autistic son at my desk.
Karen
Jun 14, 2008 at 10:27 am
I actually have an adult friend who had mercury poisioning (he ate too much sushi on a regular basis, the doctors concluded) and he was suffering some neurological damage — mostly extreme fatigue. Even in this instance when it was known with certainty that his mercury levels were too high, his doctors did not want to risk cheation treatment. He was given some dietary restrictions for a time — the main one being no more tuna — and he recovered completely in about 6 months.
H6
Jun 14, 2008 at 10:56 am
At this point, isn’t it more accurate to say that autism is a neuroimmunological disorder?
Matt
Jun 14, 2008 at 11:32 am
At this point, isn’t it more accurate to say that autism is a neuroimmunological disorder?
No.
Matt
Jun 14, 2008 at 11:34 am
Hilary, if you read this, thank you very much for coming forward.
We need more people to state publicly these facts. Unfortunately, I would suspect you got some grief for doing so.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jun 14, 2008 at 11:46 am
Also have to note that many who comment here regularly are a more than literate community…. Jim and I read the descriptions of chelation in William Shaw’s book on biomedical treatments back in 1999 and we both thought, what??!!? Jim kept reading one sentence over and over to me, about a child taking (I think it was) Diflucan and “lying motionless,” and also about possible liver damage.
We know some families who have done a lot of biomedical. To the point that it’s not unusual for them to say “we’re chelating now” or “we’re doing a chelation” as if it’s a routine procedure. No, their child is not “cured.”
HMD Heavy Metal Detox
Jun 14, 2008 at 12:08 pm
The information provided about EDTA and medically administered Chelation is correct. It does strip too many essential minerals from the body and is dangerous. Recall it was a Dr administered EDTA chelation visit that lead to the death of an autistic child, not so called “OTC” chelators.
The only clinically studied and proven effective heavy metal detox if HMD. It uses Cilantro, Chlorella, and an organic Lavage to set free then eliminate mercury and other heavy metals from the body slowly and without stripping the body of essential nutrients. I also recommend taking lots of liquid vitamins during the 3 month chelation period.
We live in a toxic world. (go to bodyburden.org for proof). Our children have the further burden from vaccines laden with aluminum, mercury, and other toxins. Is it no wonder most kids go into shock and come out “autistic” after a barrage of shots? No. Does it take a rocket scientist to put 1 and 1 together? No. However, money and I mean BIG money is spinning this debate to draw attention away from the obvious and to cast doubt in order to preserve their multi billion dollar a year industry. Most doctors are on the take of course as are medical establishments, universities, etc. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you, this is common sense. So why should we, the enlightened, the smart, the not on-the-take believe these charlatan’s and the lies they spew? We shouldn’t. I leave you with one of many “case and points” that proved the so called doctors who recommend drugs (or don’t recommend alt health practices) are “on-the-take” http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/us/08conflict.html?_r=2&sq=gardiner%20harris&st=nyt&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&scp=2&adxnnlx=1213459629-Toif4aW/z1ZlDAYnf9y/jA
Read’m and weep big pharma, read’m and weep!
Joseph
Jun 14, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Your blatant spamming is unbearable, Mike/LiquidZeolite. It truly makes me cringe.
H6
Jun 14, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Autism is not a neuroimmunological disorder? You might want to give that a little more thought.
There seems to be a great deal of interest in studying the immunological issues in autism. This is just one thing (from “Biological Psychiatry” and reported at Autism Speaks): the article “reports an intriguing observation about the immune system in autism. Immunological molecules known as ‘cell adhesion molecules’ were measured in subjects with autism by a team of Japanese scientists headed by Dr. Kenji Hashimoto, Ph.D. These molecules are used by the immune system to adhere to targets during inflammatory responses, and their levels are altered in inflammation-related diseases. This study found that male subjects with high-functioning autism had lower levels of platelet-endothelial adhesion molecule (PECAM-1) and vascular cell adhesion molecule (VCAM-1) in their blood compared to male, age-matched controls. Also, low levels of PECAM-1 were correlated with large head size at birth in subjects with autism, suggesting that this molecule could somehow be related to the brain anomalies that characterize autism. While it is unclear what these decreased levels of cell adhesion molecules signify, they may also potentially serve as a biological marker for autism. Finding these markers is critical because they could hasten diagnosis, resulting in early treatment and better outcomes for people with autism.”
Ettina
Jun 14, 2008 at 1:51 pm
“Autism is a nice way of saying brain injury.”
Wow, do you really think of brain injury that way?
I actually might be autistic due to a brain injury, or developmental disruption - my mother bled heavily and thought she was having a miscarriage at one point during my pregnancy. If you think brain injury is so terrible, read The Slow Dance by Bonnie Klein.
Then there’s also a big difference between someone’s brain function being disrupted, and an actual brain injury. If your child’s brain is injured by mercury, chelation won’t help. Only if the function is being disrupted without actual damage. It’s like the difference between not being able to move your hand because your hand is caught underneath something heavy, and having a paralyzed hand. Of course, brain disruption can easily become brain injury, since whatever is disrupting function usually is damaging the tissue as well. For example, you get a traumatic brain injury and your brain swells up. Some cells are damaged by whatever caused the injury, some are damaged by the swelling, and others are just shut off until the swelling goes down.
Club 166
Jun 14, 2008 at 1:52 pm
…Finally it has been well documented in the dental literature that amalgum fillings that contain lead can precipitate CNS dysfunction and people that exhibit such signs and symptoms recover their neurological integrity with the removal of these lead filled implants. …
Exactly where is this literature??
Because the last time I checked, dental amalgam doesn’t contain lead.
Perhaps it’s not Kristina that needs to read the literature a bit more…
Joe
Andrea
Jun 14, 2008 at 2:45 pm
@HMD: “Is it no wonder most kids go into shock and come out “autistic” after a barrage of shots?”
By your reasoning then, wouldn’t ‘most kids’ be autistic making autism the norm? My son never had any adverse reactions to his vaccinations. As a matter of fact he barely cried when he got them. He had a high tolerance for pain to go along with his noise sensitivity, which he incidently had FROM BIRTH.
@H6: You mentioned inflammatory responses and head size. How do you account for the autistic population with NO inflammatory responses and didn’t have big heads?
H6
Jun 14, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Inflammation may not be an issue in every case of autism. But it might be a key to many cases. If one is autistic and has the profile of someone with an “inflammation-related disease,” one would certainly want that to be monitored and treated if possible. No?
I’m not sure why looking at autism as an immune system mediated disorder is controversial. It seems like that’s where evidence-based science is going. The immunological paradigm of autism may uncover many new mechanisms of the disorder.
Regan
Jun 14, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Storkdok,
Was that the Ramirez case in Riverside? (that one rang a bell because it was, well, extremely weird, got a ton of press, and because our family has Riverside ties). I thought on that one, the proposed culprit was DMSO.
Gloria Ramirez, 31, at Riverside General Hospital, Feb 19-20, 1994
New York Times
http://tinyurl.com/6e95hy
a long-time poster
Jun 14, 2008 at 3:39 pm
@H6
Many actually have addressed and treated for that over the years (valtrex; valcyte; etc). It may address some health issues here and there, but it really does not change one from being autistic.
Regan
Jun 14, 2008 at 3:49 pm
“Kristina you really need to read more and to discourse with people who are more literate…”
ehtyl mercury
especailly
analagous
patently abusrd
amalgum fillings
pure nonesense
(Okey-dokey. )
H6
Jun 14, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Is there a study of valtrex or valcyte and autism?
a long-time poster
Jun 14, 2008 at 4:51 pm
@H6
IMO, I don’t think it would be a worthwhile study after what I’ve witnessed over the years. I’d still use those meds, however, to treat the precise infections for which they’re designed. (No valcyte for kids, though). I have to say, H6, from your comments I really don’t think you quite understand the autistic brain.
Emily
Jun 14, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Regan…whoot!
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jun 14, 2008 at 5:48 pm
I am tempted to write in meter or at least verse after reading Regan’s comment….
Jen
Jun 14, 2008 at 6:02 pm
@H6, wouldn’t you expect that inflammatory markers would be elevated in autistic individuals, if autism was an inflammation mediated disease (not decreased, as study found?) Not saying that the immune system is not involved in autism development, just saying that cell adhesion molecules are normally upregulated during the inflammatory response, not downregulated…
H6
Jun 14, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Downregulated would mean a potential problem with the inflammatory response in autism. No?
Emily
Jun 14, 2008 at 8:25 pm
It would mean a depressed inflammatory response. When there is an elevated inflammatory response–like that seen in autoimmunity, one would expect to see higher levels of cytokines (or CRP, etc., depending on the tissue). A depressed response would usually indicate the opposite. Suppression of the inflammatory response would be the inference to draw, and that would lead to all manner of potential physiological inputs, including endocrine, vascular, neurological, and immune. “Inflammation-mediated” implies that there *is* inflammation, not that inflammation is depressed. This, downregulation does not = a potential problem with the inflammatory response in autism. No?
This can’t go both ways, with some people asserting fevers or a huge inflammatory response to vaccines triggers autism, yet others asserting that the downregulation somehow provides the link. No?
I’m not clear on what is meant by “inflammation-related disease,” anyway. That covers an enormous number of diseases covering all body systems. No?
Keep in mind that even if there were upregulation of inflammatory markers in autism, we’d still have a chicken-egg problem. Autism is often marked by high levels of stress and anxiety. Guess what those do? No?
Jen
Jun 14, 2008 at 8:45 pm
I’m not too sure how a lack of inflammation would lead to neurological damage, however cell adhesion molecules, including the integrins VCAM-1 and PECAM are involved in many cellular processes other than inflammation. Many play a role in regulation of cell growth and cell-to-cell communication. Perhaps VECAM-1 is involved in neurogenesis? It is expressed on embryonic neural stem cells, and decreased expression would perhaps hinder typical neural development.
Jen
Jun 14, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Oops, sorry, that should be PECAM is expressed on embryonic neural stem cells- need to proof-read my posts!
Matt
Jun 15, 2008 at 9:49 am
Your blatant spamming is unbearable, Mike/LiquidZeolite. It truly makes me cringe.
Mike probably is’t too fond of the people who wrote that article–consider an earlier piece they did:
Ionic air purifiers’ dirty little secret: They don’t get rid of dust
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-skeptic21apr21,0,6472148.story
Matt
Jun 15, 2008 at 9:50 am
Your blatant spamming is unbearable, Mike/LiquidZeolite. It truly makes me cringe.
Mike probably is’t too fond of the people who wrote that article–consider an earlier piece they did:
Ionic air purifiers’ dirty little secret: They don’t get rid of dust
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-skeptic21apr21,0,6472148.story
pco air purifier
Jun 15, 2008 at 11:17 am
Hello Matt,
I have to agree with that article. I’ll take it further. Austin Air doesn’t get rid of dust. IQ Air doesn’t get rid of dust, etc. The fact is that dust is kicked up when we walk on carpet, sit on a sofa, etc. Air purifier dust removal ratings are bases on empty rooms and them then it takes 30 minutes for the dust to settle. The only air purifier that will remove dust in the air while you’re moving around is the new one we’re making (will be coming out in 1 week or so) that has a 2900 CFM fan. That’s enough CFM to remove dust even as you’re moving around.
It also gets rid of second hand smoke, smog, VOC’s, etc via photocatalytic oxidation and it’s one of a kind nano nickel titanium dioxide filters. The washable filter feature will also get rid of dust.
Matt, thanks again for bringing this OT subject to light and asking me a question. Next time however do it off line. I like to keep to the subject at hand.
Last Week’s Top Posts
Jun 15, 2008 at 12:11 pm
[…] DIY Chelation: Not Recommended On the dangers of over-the-counter chelating products. […]
Regan
Jun 15, 2008 at 2:43 pm
(Off-topic)
Mike/Zeolite/Air filter,
You and I don’t see eye-to-eye, but I see why you have a career in sales; you have the hide of a rhino and the buoyancy of styrofoam. I don’t know if admire is quite the right verb, but it’s certainly something to observe.
David H. Payne
Jun 15, 2008 at 7:19 pm
I am a physician and surgeon my last post was in the early hours of the morning and there were several errors in spelling and so on. My precious daughter is autistic and now I spend every waking hour trying to cure her. Prayer is still my greatest comfort. Please accept my humblest apologies for misspoken words and spelling errors. I will not apologize to people who insist that they are right when they are clearly wrong on the contrary you will be dealt with harshly as it is people like yourselves that allow this devastating disease to destroy our society. I will present to you in a series of emails facts that every parent should know before having children the medical evidence from the literature that supports my position.
This discussion all started with the chelation therapy and Kristina Chew and over the methods and my response to her absurd assertion that chelation is tantamount to exorcism. I further cautioned her and others not to practice kitchen cabinet medicine as that is the real problem and that chelation therapy is not the problem and is a time tested medical treatment modality for a number of heavy metals. Further Kristina states immediately under my response that autism is not related to Mercury poisoning. I will start with this misinformation and answer all criticisms no matter how feeble, ignorant or hostile a best as I can in time without being condescending.
ETHYLMERCURY IS DIRECTLY LINKED AND HAS A CAUSAL RELATIONSHIP TO AUTISM
1) It is important that you realize that the IOM findings in February 2004
(i.e. no relationship between autism and thimerosal, no further researcher should be undertaken to evaluate the relationship between autism and thimerosal, and no preference should be given for administered thimerosal-free vaccines to children) have seriously been called into question by a subsequent IOM report published in February 2005 (a copy of the IOM Press-Release is attached to this email saved as February 2005 IOM Press-Release1.pdf in Adobe Acrobat Format). The February 2005 IOM report (Institute of Medicine (US). 2005. Review of the National Immunization Program’s Research Procedures and Data Sharing Program: Vaccine Safety Research, Data Access, and Public Trust. Washington, DC: National Academy Press.) has called into question handling of vaccine safety data by the National Immunization Program of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) (i.e. it was the National Immunization Program of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that primarily upon authored, resourced, or financed research that the February 2004 IOM panel based its conclusions regarding the safety of thimerosal-containing vaccines). Thus, the conclusions of the February 2004 IOM report, at the very least, are suspect at best.
(2) Official report of the EPA (2004 Statements on Thimerosal.pdf) on Thimerosal prepared by the Environmental Protection Agency of the State of California in February 2004. It declares that Thimerosal is a known developmental toxin. This means that Thimerosal can cause birth defects, low birth weight, biological dysfunctions, or psychological or behavior deficits that become manifest as the child grows, and maternal exposure during pregnancy can disrupt the development or even cause the death of the fetus.
(3) 7 August 2004 - BBC - Vaccine Scrapped Over Autism Fear.pdf - The BBC report that was issued in early August, where the British Government announced that it was rapidly going to limit Thimerosal from childhood vaccines in light of recent scientific evidence linking Thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines with autism.
(4) Complete Mercury in Medicine Report - Taking Unnecessary Risks. - This is a Congressional Report prepared in May 2003 by the Subcommittee on Human Rights and Wellness, Government Reform Committee, United States House of Representatives following a three-year long investigation. The report concludes, “However, the Committee, upon a thorough review of the scientific literature and internal documents from government and industry, did find evidence that thimerosal did pose a risk. Thimerosal used as a preservative in vaccines is likely related to the autism epidemic. This epidemic in all probability may have been prevented or curtailed had the FDA not been asleep at the switch regarding the lack of safety data regarding injected thimerosal and the sharp rise of infant exposure to this known neurotoxin. Our public health agencies’ failure to act is indicative of institutional malfeasance for self-protection and misplaced protectionism of the pharmaceutical industry.”
(5) Press Release-OSC.pdf - This is material prepared by the United States’ Office of Special Council to the President of the United States, and was submitted to the United States’ Congress following review of hundreds of disclosures from private citizens in May 2004. Specifically, Special Council Bloch stated, “I have recently received hundreds of disclosures from private citizens alleging a widespread danger to the public health, specifically to infants and toddlers, caused by childhood vaccines which include thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative…I hasten to add, however, that based on the publicly available information, as discussed briefly below, it appears there may be sufficient evidence to find a substantial likelihood of a substantial and specific danger to public health caused by the use of thimerosal/mercury in vaccines because of its inherent toxicity.”
(6) Thimerosal Neurotoxicity is Associated with Glutathione Depletion1 - Researchers from the United States’ Food and Drug Administration have reported that the neurotoxicity of thimerosal is associated with depletion of glutathione. The ethylmercury in thimerosal binds to cysteine thiol (-SH) groups on intracellular proteins and inactivates their function. The cysteine-SH group of glutathione, binds mercury and protects essential proteins from functional inactivation. Glutathione is the major mechanism of mercury excretion, and individuals with genetic deficiencies in glutathione synthesis will be less able to excrete mercury and will be more sensitive to its adverse effects. The researchers also warn that Thimerosal still remains in some types of childhood vaccines, including the influenza, in the United States.
(7) Metabolic biomarkers in Autistic Children. PDF - Researchers from the University of Arkansas, have followed up the tissue culture research presented in the above article (Thimerosal Neurotoxicity is Associated with Glutathione Depletion), and have clinically examined autistic children. The researchers evaluated the methionine cycle and transsulfuration metabolites in autistic children in comparison age- and sex-matched control children. It was determined that there were significant decreases in the plasma concentration of cysteine (19% reduction) and glutathione (46% reduction), both are crucial for mercury excretion, in autistic children in comparison to control children. Additionally, it was determined that autistic children had significantly increased oxidative stress (3-fold decrease in glutathione/oxidized glutathione redox ratio) in comparison to control children (i.e. mercury can cause oxidative stress in the body).
(8) MTHFR Mutations in Autism. PDF - Researchers from the University of Arkansas and the University of North Carolina, have followed up the metabolic biomarkers measured in autistic children presented in the above article (Metabolic Biomarkers in Autistic Children), and have clinically examined potential mercury susceptibility genes in autistic children. The researchers have evaluated genes coding enzymes that are of specific importance in the methionine cycle in autistic children in comparison to controls. It was determined that autistic children have significantly increased genetic polymorphisms in specific genes coding for enzymes that are of functional importance in the appropriate synthesis of cysteine and glutathione in the body, both are crucial for mercury excretion. The authors concluded that it is likely that combination of environmental factors (such as heavy metal exposure - mercury) with genomic risk factors (such as MTHFR polymorphisms), results in the phenotypic expression of autistic spectrum disorder symptoms.
(10) The Environmental Working Group (www.ewg.org) has issued a formal report on the link between Thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism (attached to this email saved as Complete Overloaded - Mercury & Autism1.pdf in Adobe Acrobat Format). This report directly challenges the conclusions by the United States National Academy of Sciences’ 2004 Institute of Medicine Report and epidemiological studies purporting to have found no possible link between Thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, and suggests that autism, does indeed represent damage from mercury containing Thimerosal-containing vaccines, among a subset of children that have a decreased ability to excrete mercury. This report is significantly based upon new clinical research published in peer-reviewed journals by another major researcher to come to the fore of supporting a link between mercury and autism, Dr. Jill James, from the Department of Pediatrics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, and former senior researcher scientist with the United States’ Food and Drug Administration.
(11) A Case-Control Study of Mercury Burden in Children with Autistic Spectrum Disorders. PDF - This study by authors including researchers from Arizona State University evaluated the concentration of heavy metals in the urine among a population of children with autistic spectrum disorders in comparison to a neurotypical control population. Based on excretion following an identical three-day oral provocation with meso 2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA), it was observed that there was approximately 6-times statistically significantly greater urinary mercury concentrations among vaccinated cases matched to vaccinated neurotyptical controls, whereas children with autistic spectrum disorders had similar urinary cadmium and lead concentrations in comparison to neurotypical controls. Similar urinary mercury concentrations were observed among matched vaccinated neurotypical children and unvaccinated neurotypical children following DMSA treatment.
(12) Activation of Methionine Synthase by Insulin-like Growth Factor-1 and Dopamine - A Target for Neurodevelopmental Toxins and Thimerosal.pdf - Researchers from Northeastern University, Tufts University, the University of Nebraska, and Johns Hopkins University have reported that methylation events play a critical role in the ability of growth factors to promote normal development. The authors found that insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1)- and dopamine-stimulated methionine synthase (MS) activity and folate-dependent methylation of phospholipids in SH-SY5Y human neuroblastoma cells, occurred via a PI3-kinase- and MAP-kinase-dependent mechanism. Thimerosal inhibited both IGF-1- and dopamine-stimulated methylation with an IC(50) of 1 nM and eliminated MS activity. The authors concluded that the discovery of the PI3-kinase/MAP-kinase/MS pathway, and its potent inhibition by thimerosal, a vaccine component, provides a molecular explanation for how increased use of vaccines could promote an increase in the incidence of autism and Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity-Disorder (ADHD).
THIS IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE TI LINKS THIMEROSAL TO NOT JUST AUTISM BUT ADHD AND PROVIDES THE BIOCHEMICAL PATHWAY
(13) Thimerosal Induces DNA Breaks - Caspase-3 Activation - Membrane Damage - Death in Human Neurons.pdf - Researchers from Baylor College of Medicine have demonstrated that micromolar concentrations of thimerosal induced membrane and DNA damage, and initiated caspase-3 dependent apoptosis inhuman neurons and fibroblasts within hours of exposure.
THIMEROSAL (MERCURY POISONING) ACTUALLY DAMAGES THE DNA
(14) Retrograde Degeneration of Neurite Membrane Structural Integrity of Nerves Following Mercury Exposure.pdf - Researchers from the University of Calgary examined neurite outgrowth following exposure to the same concentrations of mercury, aluminum, lead, cadmium, and manganese. The authors demonstrated that nanomolar (nM) concentrations of mercury markedly disrupted membrane structure and linear growth rates of imaged neurites in 77% of all nerve growth cones, whereas the other metals examined did not affect growth patterns of the neurons examined, The authors concluded that their study provides visual and biochemical evidence strongly implicating mercury as a potent factor in neurodegeneration. Similar results have been observed in tissue culture systems with thimerosal.
THIMEROSAL (MERCURY POISONING) ACTUALLY DAMAGES THE GROWTH OF THE NEURITES AND CAUSES NEURODEGENERATION- BRAIN INJURY
(15) The Role of Mercury in the Pathogenesis of Autism1.pdf
(16) Redwood et al Predicted Hg Levels1.pdf
(17) Blaxill, Redwood, Bernard and Medical Hypothesis1.pdf
(18) Autism - A Novel Form of Mercury Poisoning1.pdf
Standard vaccine practices in the United States during the past several decades exposed many children to levels of mercury that exceeded Federal Safety Guidelines for the oral ingestion of methylmercury, and also exposed to children to levels of mercury that exceeded the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)’s permissible hair mercury limit.
According to the CDC recommended immunization schedule in the United States during the 1990s, infants may have been exposed to 12.5 micrograms of mercury at birth, 62.5 micrograms of mercury at 2 months, 50 micrograms of mercuryat 4 months, 62.5 micrograms of mercury at 6 months, and 50 micrograms of mercury at approximately 18 months, for a total of 237.5 micrograms of mercury during the first 18 months of life, if all thimerosal-containing vaccines were administered. Researchers have estimated hair mercury concentrations expected to result from the recommended CDC schedule during the 1990s utilizing a one compartment pharmacokinetic model, and found that modeled hair mercury concentrations in infants exposed to Thimerosal-containing vaccines were in excess of the EPA safety guidelines of 1 part-per-million (ppm) for up to 365 days, with several peak concentrations within this period (some more than 10-fold in excess of the EPA safety guidelines). Researchers have reported that exposure to mercury can cause immune, sensory, neurological, motor, and behavioral dysfunctions similar to traits defining or associated with autistic disorders, and the similarities extend to neuroanatomy, neurotransmitters, and biochemistry.
(19) Thimerosal in Childhood Vaccines - Neurodevelopmental Disorders - Heart Disease in the United States. PDF
(20) Neurodevelopmental Disorders After Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines - A Brief Communication. PDF
(21) An Assessment of the Impact of Thimerosal on Childhood
Neurodevelopmental Disorders. PDF
(22) A Comparative Evaluation of the Effects of MMR Immunization and Thimerosal on the Population Prevalence of Autism.pdf
(23) Neurodevelopmental Disorders Following TCVs - A Follow-up Analysis.pdf
(24) A Two-Phased Population Epidemiological Study of the Safety of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines1.pdf
In order to examine the relationship between Thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines and autistic disorders in the United States, a series of epidemiological studies based upon assessments of the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database have been undertaken. The VAERS database is an epidemiological database that was established by an act of the United States Congress and specific vaccine-associated adverse events are required to be reported by law. The utility of VAERS in vaccine safety studies has been reviewed, and it has been used in previous vaccine epidemiological safety studies. In studies examining the relationship between thimerosal and neurodevelopmental disorders based upon analysis of the VAERS database, the incidence rates of reported adverse events following Thimerosal-containing and Thimerosal-free DTaP vaccines administered for similar years and in childhood vaccination schedule have been compared. The results demonstrated that there were approximately 2- to 8-fold statistically significantly increased risks for neurodevelopmental disorders, depending on the specific symptoms or disorder, reported to the VAERS database among children receiving Thimerosal-containing DTaP vaccines in comparison to children receiving Thimerosal-free DTaP vaccines, while other vaccine-associated adverse events not biologically plausibly linked to mercury, outcomes such as fever, injection site pain, and seizures, were reported similarly to the VAERS database following Thimerosal-containing and Thimerosal-free DTaP vaccines. In addition, ecological studies have assessed the population prevalence of autism and speech disorders in the United States in comparison to the average doses of mercury children received from Thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines. It was observed that there was a statistically significant positive correlation between exposures to mercury from Thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines and the population prevalence of autism and speech disorders. Also, based we evaluated the automated Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) for cumulative exposures to mercury from TCVs at 1-, 2-, 3-, and 6-months-of-age for infants born from 1992 through 1997 and the eventual risk of developing NDs. It was found that significant associations between cumulative exposures to thimerosal and the following types of NDs: unspecified developmental delay, tics, attention deficit disorder (ADD), language delay, speech delay, and neurodevelopmental delays In general.
(25) Holmes et al. have examined ability to excrete mercury by examining mercury levels in the first baby haircuts of autistic children in comparison to non-autistic control children. They demonstrated that the severity of autism was inversely proportional to the level of mercury in their baby hair, which was very low compared to controls, and suggested that autistic children have an inability to excrete mercury.
THIS IS A SUMMARY OF THE LITERATURE THAT DESCRIBES HOW ETHYLMERCURY IN THIMEROSAL DESTROYS BRAIN CELLS CANNOT BE EXCRETED DISABLES THE SPEECH CENTER AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF LEARNING DISABILITIES. I WILL NEXT MOVE ONTO HOW VACCINES ARE ALSO AN AUTOIMMUNE INSULT TO THE BRAINS OF INFANTS AND TODDLERS THEN I WILL DISCUSS CHELATION AND OTHER ISSUES.
David H. Payne M.D.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jun 15, 2008 at 7:23 pm
@David H. Payne, MD,
Thanks for the list of references, which are quite familiar to many readers here, I think.The notion of expelling “toxic” substances (such as heavy metals) is interesting to compare to a sort of “exorcism.” My very best to your daughter and hope that you have been able to find the right kinds of supports and services for her. Very best—–
David H. Payne
Jun 15, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Kristina
Your assertion above that mercury poisoning plays no role in autism is wrong period. The above references clearly refute your position and you should revise it if you want people to believe are sincere in your post.
Andrea
Jun 15, 2008 at 7:53 pm
David Payne,
Please pardon my apparent ignorance, but how exactly do all these references account for the autistic individuals who were presenting with symptoms from birth? I probably missed that part; I have a short attention span.
Emily
Jun 15, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Or how it explains cases that arose after thimerosal was removed from vaccines? Please.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jun 15, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Indeed, the study on thimerosal exposure declining and autism rates rising, published in January of this year.
Regan
Jun 15, 2008 at 8:58 pm
You skipped one (well, there’s more than one, but for the sake of brevity),
Fombonne, E., Zakarian, R., Bennett, A., Meng, L, and McLean-Heywood, D., (2006). Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence and Links With Immunizations. Pediatrics, 118, e139-150.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/118/1/e139
From results:
“…The prevalence of pervasive developmental disorder in thimerosal-free birth cohorts was significantly higher than that in thimerosal-exposed cohorts (82.7 of 10000 vs 59.5 of 10000). Using logistic regression models of the prevalence data, we found no significant effect of thimerosal exposure used either as a continuous or a categorical variable. Thus, thimerosal exposure was unrelated to the increasing trend in pervasive developmental disorder prevalence. These results were robust when additional analyses were performed to address possible limitations because of the ecological nature of the data and to evaluate potential effects of misclassification on exposure or diagnosis. Measles-mumps-rubella vaccination coverage averaged 93% during the study interval with a statistically significant decreasing trend from 96.1% in the older birth cohorts (1988–89) to ~92.4% in younger birth cohorts (1996–1998). Thus, pervasive developmental disorder rates significantly increased when measles-mumps-rubella vaccination uptake rates significantly decreased. In addition, pervasive developmental disorder prevalence increased at the same rate before and after the introduction in 1996 of the second measles-mumps-rubella dose, suggesting no increased risk of pervasive developmental disorder associated with a 2–measles-mumps-rubella dosing schedule before age 2 years. Results held true when additional analyses were performed to test for the potential effects of misclassification on exposure or diagnostic status. Thus, no relationship was found between pervasive developmental disorder rates and 1- or 2-dose measles-mumps-rubella immunization schedule…”
David H. Payne
Jun 15, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Andrea,
Your attention deficit not withstanding infants in the USA are given hepatitis b vaccine the first day of life as I stated previously this disease is more than likely an autoimmune disease exacerbated by mercury poisoning. You probably did not even know that and if your child was given this injection without proper informed consent they violated the law, that is correct if you have an autistic child and they did not review the risk and complications and that includes autism then you were not properly informed. As a surgeon I go through a 10 page consent prior to operating on a patients spine and I have models and videos. A devastating disease and all of the possible risk MUST be elucidated prior to medical intervention especially when causation is linked closely to a medical treatment for the prevention of a malady the patient does not even have. Autism is clearly related to autoimmune dysfunction and that is probably the primary insult, it does not mean that you leave ethylmercury in the brain especially since your levels are clearly outside the acceptable norm
Andrea
Jun 15, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Not to be contrary, but my son was not given Hep B at birth. If I recall correctly, that practice of giving the Hep B vaccine, if not completely stopped by now, is not practiced across the board. If I’m wrong abou that I’ll concede the point, but for my isolated incident, ours was at 3 weeks. And in that 3 week period, the serious sensitivity to noise was easily apparent. As an infant, my son could be disturbed by a pin dropping on a plush carpet. He was hyper-alert right from the womb. When most babies don’t even have their eyes open yet, his were all over the place (and quite freaked out). I remember these things clearly. Did I know he was autistic at three weeks, but in retrospect, a few of the signs were there coming out of the gate. While I can’t dispute your very extensive research, I have to say I don’t feel it applies to our particular case.
Matt
Jun 15, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Kristina,
you pull in some wonders. I admire your patience.
Matt
a long-time poster
Jun 15, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Nope, no Hep B at birth here either. Same with the hyper-alertness and such which Andrea describes.
Emily
Jun 15, 2008 at 11:05 pm
We declined Hep B for all of our children at birth–what with the midwives and homebirth and all…it was kind of easy to do.
Emily
Jun 15, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Dude, are you an orthopedic surgeon? I don’t think you’re exactly practicing your specialty over here.
David H. Payne
Jun 16, 2008 at 1:28 am
Emily,
I am an orthopedic surgeon and I know at least 6 other surgeons with similar problems and nobody is happy and some are actually quite pissed like me and others are ashamed like many other people, living with the idea that somehow they are responsible for their normal born children regressing after injections they do not need, and nothing could be further from the truth and the truth will come out. We do not see ourselves above disease but we do know BS when we see it, this is iatrogenic and even if you do not recognize it we do.
I have written scientific papers and done original research and I know how to go about reviewing literature critically and have had training in immunology however this, until now was not my field of interest and I had no clue about htis devastating disease as they tryb to keep it a secret. At this time however I will be doing my do diligence I will take care of my daughter first but I will be coming back for all these people and they will be held accountable
Your flippant remarks about Hep B vaccine underscores your total ignorance of what is happening to children. Many people like myself and these other physicians were never asked or informed warned etc.
Hep B is epidemiologically found overwhelmingly in two groups, Male homosexuals and IV drug users. Why would a 8 hour old baby need this vaccine that by the way most likely had thimerosal in it? Have you seen the list of vaccines that children are given? Forty vaccines for what? Mumps and measles are typically referred to childhood exanthemas and most often cause no problems except in immunologically compromised patients and the rate is low all of the studies are done by the people making the vaccine so of course everyone needs the vaccine. This is profiteering at the expense of human life and this is clearly insane and could never happen in orthopedics the discipline is just to strong. Oh yeah we get fooled from time to time examples like IDET, Ray and BAK cages, however these disasters do not hang around crippling people for decades and when they fall in disrepute they fall hard, real hard. We are required to declare if we or are families received any compensation from any company that we discuss in literature or publish and if you do not you lose your board certification for unethical behavior. Your law suits go up and then you cannot get insurance and then you drive a cab and that is how it should be. These companies have bamboozled many of your people as you clearly have no clue just how nefarious they can be. The CDC has put the number or rate of autism at 1 in 150. This is of reported cases if you look at the number of people that are not reported are shamed or in denial this number is much bigger in my opinion. I will be signing off and will post my other info later this week after I have taken of these need for my daughter. It has helped me tremendously to gather my thoughts as I post with you people. I will pray for all of your children please pray for my child. Thank you
David H. Payne M.D.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jun 16, 2008 at 1:32 am
@David H. Payne, you wrote:
Of course this figure is an average; it is of course higher (1 in 94) in New Jersey where I live. And one reason for this seems to be the level of awareness and understanding about autism and the fact that Jersey has some longstanding programs and schools for autism. Very best and hope you are finding the right kinds of educational supports and services for your daughter. Thank you very much—-
Cliff
Jun 16, 2008 at 2:57 am
“I will not apologize to people who insist that they are right when they are clearly wrong on the contrary you will be dealt with harshly as it is people like yourselves that allow this devastating disease to destroy our society.”
Well, aren’t we a little ungracious? I don’t want to respond to all of the details as to your references (again, where more doesn’t meant better, or even critically at all. I mean, you pulled a House report that basically used a throwaway possibility based on opinion several years before more studies yet were against the link? Give me a break!). But I would suggest you stop using emotional arguments like that. It’s not really helpful at all, to anyone here and least of all to you. Though I get that misspellings happen, it’s not something you want to see happen when you’ve declared yourself more literate than someone else, really. I know I do that, but I never would have made such an obnoxious statement.
Cliff
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jun 16, 2008 at 3:49 am
@Matt, It’s good practice….
@Andrea, that is interesting about your son—-the first thing Jim said about Charlie just after he was born was “he’s real alert and looking around.”
David H. Payne
Jun 16, 2008 at 6:38 am
Cliff,
I am not the least bit ungracious and there is nothing emotional about the information I am presenting. Kristina although clearly well meaning is wrong when she says that there is no link between Mercury and Autism period. I have reviewed and presented the literature that supports the fact that there is a real and scientifically reproducible causal relationship between mercury and autism on various levels. Present your arguments to the contrary with verifiable papers. There are some out there but they are weak and I have read them However, If you cannot understand the information or it is beyond your comprehension or outside of the scope of your knowledge or you do not have the training, education, the capacity or simply the desire to work to synthesize and analyze the information then simply leave alone. This “throw away” information was the basis of the denial of the relationship in question autism and mercury and what ALL OF THE OTHER ARTICLES SOUGHT TO REFUTE. Had the IOM not presented such a weak and obviously poorly thought out argument these other agencies and factions within this same agency, the IOM, would not have been able to so easily refute their findings on so many levels. Yes it was total BS but people are still quoting it as gospel despite the copious amount of scientific evidence to the contrary. Kristina has not and you certainly have not provided to me anything that would me make me think for example that ethylmercury does not bind to glutathione or that having 6 times the normally accepted amount in the brain of a toddler is good, show me the literature Cliff that says that ethylmercury is not neurotoxic. You cannot because there is none. Put up or shut up Cliff. I will review anything you have to say but it better be real or I will identify you and anybody else for what you are whether that be a dilatant a charlatan or an intellectual imposter. This involves my family and I am taking no prisoners and that is just the way it is. I will dress you down very dispassionately I have no problems with that. I am not here to toot my own horn but I have been a orthopedic and spinal surgeon for twenty years I am double board certified and recertified look it up on the internet. I am a serious person and I have serious responsibilities to real people and they trust me with their very lives in every thing I do but especially surgery. I prescribe all types of medication and operate on people every week. I would never prescribe medication or do a procedure that was consistently linked to a devastating outcome like autism. The physicians that currently prescribe these vaccines under these conditions are in direct contravention to the oath they took that says clearly “FIRST DO NO HARM” If you do have an a constructive argument present it for dialogue but do not act like a smart ass or I will treat you like one.
Emily
Jun 16, 2008 at 9:08 am
I don’t recall having made flip remarks about hep B. We declined it for our children. We have two with autism. You’re out of your league here. Go back to spines.
David H. Payne
Jun 16, 2008 at 10:42 am
“We declined Hep B for all …it was kind of easy to do.”
Hey Emily This is flippant read your own post and I will express my free speech if you do not like it leave. This is partly still a free country we can dialogue friendly or unfriendly I will respond however.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jun 16, 2008 at 10:46 am
@David H. Payne,
There is no credible, valid scientific evidence linking vaccines or anything to vaccines in autism.
David H. Payne
Jun 16, 2008 at 10:52 am
“There is not credible, valid scientific evidence linking vaccines or anything to vaccines in autism.”
I will present the autoimmune side of this sad medical fiasco this week it will be illuminating unless you work for the pharmaceutical company.
Emily
Jun 16, 2008 at 10:52 am
It was easy to do. We said, “no” the two times we were offered in the hospital (two children, respectively) and weren’t offered at all during our homebirth with a CNM. That’s not flip, it’s true.
You’re a hoot, though, marching on here like John Wayne riding to the rescue to save all of us fools from our own ignorance by giving us endless lists of abstracts from papers we’ve already read and parsed and letting us all know how smart and well educated you are and how much we could learn from you if we would just bow down before your overwhelming brilliance. And then inviting us to leave if we don’t like it.
He’s here all day, folks! Tip your waitress!
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jun 16, 2008 at 11:02 am
More coffee, definitely, and some genetics.
daedalus2u
Jun 16, 2008 at 11:38 am
David Payne, you are spouting dangerous nonsense. If you think what you have posted are credible sources, you don’t know how to read and understand the scientific literature.
Some of what you posted is quite nonsensical. In the “case controlled…” they removed at most ~3 micrograms of mercury with chelation over 3 days. Is that “significant”? Maybe in a statistical sense, not in a medical sense. A single bite of a tuna sandwich can have more. Does 3 micrograms of mercury cause autism?
Why don’t you look at the Faroe Islands study of autism? There was a cohort composed of 996 consecutive births where cord blood mercury was measured at birth. 747 had cord blood mercury levels above 60 nM/L. 249 had cord blood mercury levels above 200 nM/L.
In the two years including the time period where those 996 children were born, there were 1404 children born. In those 2 years there were 5 cases of autism spectrum disorders. 2 of autism and 3 of Asperger’s.
It is not a close call. There is no evidence that mercury causes autism. Not inorganic mercury, not methyl mercury, not ethyl mercury, not thimerosal.
David H. Payne
Jun 16, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Ah daedalus,
I was wondering when you were going to show up you have proven my hypothesis correct. Just like a rat to cheese . I saw your picture of you in your maze excuse me cubicle. You and your handlers are really not that smart. I will review your studies in detail as well as who paid for them and who pays for you. I will have a surprise for you and your ilk and be careful what you say.
Emily
Jun 16, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Wow. How does that breeze feel on your ass, Dr. Payne? ‘Cause you’re really showing it now.
Mike
Jun 16, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Dr Payne,
Thank you! The truth is what it is, even though some with an agenda will deny it.
How can any literature produced under the umbrella of “conflict of interest” be given any weight? Conflict of interest is what we have today between big pharma and the medical establishment and dare I say the government. The CDC will spin numbers to say that vaccines don’t cause autism as they are an arm of big pharma which stands to lose billions if the truth is exposed. Same conflict of interest that existed when tobacco companies got dragged into court and tobacco researchers swore under oath (and produced studies) that smoking did not cause cancer and was not addictive. That conflict of interest was obvious, the current drug company - CDC conflict of interest doesn’t seem to get much air time in the mass media. Wonder why? Wonder if the mass media is also controlled by the government? (gov-pharma are in bed as well).
We say we live in a free society, but the sad truth is that we las a society are post 911 are in a transfer stage. Those who control the money call the shots. This is true in your household and it’s true in government. The worst part of all this is that the sicker we get, the more money they make. The current “epidemics” were experiencing are not accidental but rather by design. Why? Money, greed, hidden agendas.
I for one would like to see a law that requires anyone giving a pro government or pro pharma response via a post or a website to be forced to have a profile page where they state their affiliations and swear under penalty of prison time that they have not received any money from any pharma company for posting or stating their opinion. That would be a good start, don’t all you think? If we don’t do this, big pharma will continue to treat us like unwanted stepchildren and continue to use and abuse our children for their own financial gain. Can’t blame them, they’re a “for profit” entity. Just wish we could even the playing field a bit.
Emily
Jun 16, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Mike, for the love of Pete. …don’t you feel the hypocrisy suffocating you when you say things like this:
“Thank you! The truth is what it is, even though some with an agenda will deny it.”
Man, you’ve got an agenda so large there’s probably not enough space on the “Internets” to accommodate it.
Jen
Jun 16, 2008 at 1:22 pm
My child has not received mercury containing vaccines- we live in Canada, where the HepB vaccine is not given until adolescence, and he has never received the flu shot. He does have autism. It is overly simplistic to state that all autistic children have brain damage from vaccines. While I can’t speak for the individual circumstances in Dr. Payne’s family, I can speak for mine (as I’m sure is the case for all parents posting here), and I know that vaccines were not the trigger for my son’s developmental delays.
C
Jun 16, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Hmm… I would never see a doc named Payne…
Cliff
Jun 16, 2008 at 1:40 pm
“I am not the least bit ungracious and there is nothing emotional about the information I am presenting.”
Oh, really? What is…
“This involves my family and I am taking no prisoners and that is just the way it is.”
(Since when did intellectual discussions become warzones? Please tell.)
“I am an orthopedic surgeon and I know at least 6 other surgeons with similar problems and nobody is happy and some are actually quite pissed like me and others are ashamed like many other people, living with the idea that somehow they are responsible for their normal born children regressing after injections they do not need, and nothing could be further from the truth and the truth will come out.”
(You’re putting down the guilt trip here, not actually supporting your argument in any way)
“THIS IS A SUMMARY OF THE LITERATURE THAT DESCRIBES HOW ETHYLMERCURY IN THIMEROSAL DESTROYS BRAIN CELLS CANNOT BE EXCRETED DISABLES THE SPEECH CENTER AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF LEARNING DISABILITIES. I WILL NEXT MOVE ONTO HOW VACCINES ARE ALSO AN AUTOIMMUNE INSULT TO THE BRAINS OF INFANTS AND TODDLERS THEN I WILL DISCUSS CHELATION AND OTHER ISSUES.”
(Dear lord, I can read! I really can! No need to scream at me! Stop it!)
“I will not apologize to people who insist that they are right when they are clearly wrong on the contrary you will be dealt with harshly as it is people like yourselves that allow this devastating disease to destroy our society.”
(This is bad in a few ways but here you’re now trying to tell us we’re allowing diseases to destroy society. That’s begging the question and throwing the guilt gauntlet. Heck, you threw the guilt piano this time, but it missed, thankfully)
I will present the autoimmune side of this sad medical fiasco this week it will be illuminating unless you work for the pharmaceutical company.
(A typical “us-them” argument wrapped up in pity)
And not ungracious? Read further…
“I will review anything you have to say but it better be real or I will identify you and anybody else for what you are whether that be a dilatant a charlatan or an intellectual imposter. This involves my family and I am taking no prisoners and that is just the way it is. I will dress you down very dispassionately I have no problems with that.”
(Uh, hello? Again, the goal in a constructive argument is never to “take down your opponent”, and it is your job to assume competency, and be proven wrong distinctly on the basis of misusing information or presenting fallacious arguments (it doesn’t mean not having a wide library of information to toss at people). Further, recognize there are different ways of presenting arguments. I’m a student in the social sciences, and if I can approach the argument that way all the power to me and others who do.)
“However, If you cannot understand the information or it is beyond your comprehension or outside of the scope of your knowledge or you do not have the training, education, the capacity or simply the desire to work to synthesize and analyze the information then simply leave alone.”
(If the person can put up a proposition within a means clearly of their fluency, it’s not your right to dismiss them based off of a lack of authority position, ever. I don’t care if you say you’ve seen the light of God, you better be able to back it up with good idea structures.)
I will start with this misinformation and answer all criticisms no matter how feeble, ignorant or hostile a best as I can in time without being condescending.
(Again, it is your job to legitimize criticism, and address it as harshly as you like on its merits. You can’t assume without specifics that it could be “feeble, ignorant, or hostile”.)
“Kristina you really need to read more and to discourse with people who are more literate and better informed.”
(An ad hominem argument, no less. Again, and especially with someone like Kristina who has presented so well here, it is your job to presume competency).
I think, even in the limited space you gave me, to give examples of both, but I won’t. My point is clear, supported, and I’ll presume you have some logical explanations for such structures. I am waiting for them.
If you’re looking for individuals studies, I would consult with someone like Regan, who has better access to this kind of thing than I do. Further, search through Kristina’s blog. She has documented the evidence regarding the mercury/autism controversy. Further, look a general search on the sources in a public medical source and take the first five, as to be clear in regards to cherrypicking, and present those, and everyone would better suited for such a discussion.
Cliff
daedalus2u
Jun 16, 2008 at 2:03 pm
David Payne, just cite some credible studies and not nonsense.
If you really were knowledgeable about physiology you would know that the glutathione levels in plasma are relatively unimportant. Where they are important are inside cells where the levels are about 1,000 times higher (that is about one thousand times higher). The paper showing reduced glutathione levels only looked at plasma, not inside cells where it really matters and is about a thousand times higher. Is it higher or lower in people with autism where it matters? That is a good question that hasn’t been published. Was that something that wasn’t measured, or something that wasn’t published because it didn’t “fit” with the legal strategy of those funding the “research”?
Making up crap about who pays me shows how ready you are to lie. The fact is that I am working on my own, and have received no funding from anyone to do my NO research. No funding to do my autism research. No funding to do my blogging, no funding to do my commenting. Pretending you know otherwise is a lie, pure and simple. But lies come very easy to you antivax people.
I know you antivax wackos can’t understand anyone doing things except if they are getting paid to do so, but that is projection. Some of us try to live our lives doing the right thing. We see other people as human beings to get along with and cooperate with, to try and help, not as a resource to exploit.
If chelation is so great for autism, how come there are no studies showing that? How come there are no before and after studies? How come there was no follow-up of the children with autism that were chelated?
If the Geiers can get crap study after crap study published, why don’t they publish all the “good data” they must have on chelation curing children? Maybe because they don’t have any “good data”? If they don’t have any “good data”, what are they doing advocating chelation?
daedalus2u
Jun 16, 2008 at 2:13 pm
David Payne, If you want something to refute on mercury, you could start with the blog I posted on it.
http ://daedalus2u.blogspot.com/2007/03/discussion-of-false-mercury-causes.html
I address a fair amount of the nonsense that the anti-mercury people have put out.
Feel free to refute it directly on my blog where I will respond. If you expect to be successful, you will need better references than the anti-mercury crap you have posted so far.
(space put after http so the comment would post)
Mike
Jun 16, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I do have an agenda, getting backlinks to my new webite. There is my disclosure. I might add don’t buy liquid zeolite as my research suggests it isn’t as good at detoxing as HMD with cilantro and organic chlorella which I will sell exclusively along with a nano zeolite powder. (In about 2 weeks)
End of disclosure.
To all of you who didn’t have your kids immunized yet they still developed autism, here’s something to consider: 1) Shots are not in and of themselves the only thing that causes autism. Mercury from coal burning power plants, mercury in fish, etc also cause brain damage and lead to autism. One can also say a toxic assault from a number of sources leads to autism (see bodyburden.org for more info) However, one cannot say that even trace amounts of mercury (the amount in shots today) does not cause neurological damage as the science still suggests it does. One cannot say that a toxic build-up of mercury does not cause autism as it most likely does. Sure, there are some gut and digestion issues and fluoride may play a part there, but for the most part, one can deduce that the current vaccine schedule coupled with the fact vaccines are a harmful product to begin. When you factor in the poor diet our children have today and the digestion and elimination problems they have, you’ll discover that mercury is the prime suspect in the autism epidemic.
a long-time poster
Jun 16, 2008 at 2:27 pm
@ Dr Payne:
As how decades-long physician and surgeon, I am really seriously wondering how you were unaware of these alleged extreme hazards of vaccines, which now you cite, prior to the birth of your child? Thanking you in advance for your response.
Kev
Jun 16, 2008 at 2:37 pm
“I do have an agenda, getting backlinks to my new webite. There is my disclosure. “
Otherwise known as spamming….
Dr Payne - your evidence is a joke. It seems to be based pretty much on the Bernard/Holmes/Hornig trinity which has been refuted.
Would you like me to explain it to you? I can use small words if you need me to.
Mike
Jun 16, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Kev = http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/
How do you say “hypocrite” in the UK?
Bernard/Holmes/Hornig trinity which has been refuted? I’ve read through most of those papers and find them credible and relevant. As opposed to the pharma paid studies and opinions from schmucks like Fombonne or Walter A. Orenstein, MD, Formerly Director of the National Immunization Program at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention who is very much pro-vaccine in his papers. How do you say “conflict of interest” in the UK, skippy?
Kev
Jun 16, 2008 at 4:13 pm
“Kev = http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/“
Well done on clicking a link!
“How do you say “hypocrite” in the UK?”
“Mike”
“Bernard/Holmes/Hornig trinity which has been refuted? I’ve read through most of those papers and find them credible and relevant.”
I would guess thats because you’re a credulous spammer?
The Bernard ‘paper’ has been refuted by bloggers (http://www.theautismwiki.com/Thimerosal/Bernard) and by scientists (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/111/3/674) and thats aside from the fact it was published in Medical Hypothesis - a non peer reviewed journal where all one has to do to get a study in is to pay for it. Its a joke. Even Liz Mumper, the head of DAN! medical was embarrased by it.
The Holmes study…well, where to start…? I guess most importantly is the fact that Holmes et al:
“…imply, in the introduction, that one of the reasons they began this study was that some autistic children had presented to Dr. Holmes’ practice with low hair mercury levels. Finding that all 94 autistic subjects in this study had low hair mercury levels, they then proceded to a conclusion that was not supported by their data.”
And Hornig….well, lets have Dr Johnson who testified at the ongoing Autism Omnibus tell the truth:
Renzi: Do you have confidence in Dr. Hornig’s reported results?
Johnson: Uh, no.
Renzi: Part of that has to do with the hippocampal sections, correct?
Johnson: The quality of the images,… I’ll point this out, (the sections from the Hornig paper) .. What you can see is when you look at these images—to me these images are absolutely awful, now the staining here is hematoxylin and eosin, and it’s supposed to stain for architecture and cell integrity and a variety of other things. The pictures are diffuse, there’s no clear neuronal fields. Right here there is weak staining. … If you look here, the cells that are dark right there, those are the neuronal fields. The quality is just extremely low. … Quality of the sections themselves are low. … Let’s put it this way, I’ve seen this in my lab before. I’ve seen people come to me with sections stained like this. I’ll say: Something’s wrong. OK? The tissue wasn’t prepared right. There’s something definately wrong here. Because these do not maintain the nice cellular architecture that you should see if the experiment is done right and the tissue is harvested correctly.
Renzi: Problems with these slides led you to doubt the findings of the Hornig paper? Has a recent paper contradicted Hornig’s findings? …
Johnson: The… comparable fields in the Berman paper. To me they are absolutely beautiful. … It looks very, very, very good.
Renzi: … What dose of thimerosal was used in the Berman paper?
Johnson: …They also used a does that was 10 times higher…
The paper under discussion is this one. The conclusion is:
“Considered together the present results do not indicate pervasive developmental neurotoxicity following vaccine-level thimerosal injections in SJL mice, and provide little if any support for the hypothesis that thimerosal exposure contributes to the etiology of neurodevelopmental disorders.”
Do you think the MIND institute (who ran the Berman study) are paid Pharma schumucks? And really isn’t it just a little infantile calling people schmucks because they produce good, reproducible science?
“How do you say “conflict of interest” in the UK, skippy?”
“Geier” sonny.
a long-time poster
Jun 16, 2008 at 5:06 pm
@ Dr Payne:
I mangled my question upon editing; I will re-phrase:
You are a decades-long physician and surgeon who is supposedly well-read in medicine. How did the studies of the dangers of childhood vaccines escape you until of late? Thank-you.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jun 16, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Or maybe
“Geiers.”
Regan
Jun 16, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Since nothing was “attached to this email”, pdf or otherwise, as stated in Dr. Payne’s lengthly treatise, I did a search on exact citations. FWIW, the public open sources of the particular citations are generally from Safeminds.org or Generation Rescue, A-Champ, CoMeD, etc. so Dr. Payne is going through a certain amount of replication of arguments that have already been put forth elsewhere by those who advocate his position, and as Bink noted, it is a little bit of a time capsule.
I did my search in Pubmed, Google Scholar, and the .gpo database, which will not only bring up the papers themselves, but associated and citing papers, which I find useful to get a fuller picture of more recent or rebutting work if it exists. Some of them on both sides are available in open access.
My declaration is that I have an autistic daughter and get no money from anyone (too bad, for me, I guess), and that it gets tiresome having science discussion descend to the level of a Sidney Harris cartoon, “Proof, I’ll give you proof!”. My personal point of view is that it is a mark of pseudoscience, rather than science to cherry pick citations that only support one’s point of view and turn a blind eye to those papers that might invalidate a hypothesis or present an alternative, and perhaps more evidenced explanation.
Other bloggers have discussed the details of the particular papers more thoroughly than I ever could, with citations and in some cases, direct correspondence–LB/RB, Respectful Insolence, AutismDiva, Autism Street, Neurodiversity. etc. But one might also read the review papers directly and deliberate.
I have the specific citation list, and some of the rebutting reseach which I could post, and may later. but I think that would cause of possibly rightful charge of bamboozling. Certainly it is long. Maybe later. Right now, playing UNO with Eleanor seems to have much more allure, and certainly is more useful to her.
Perhaps Kristina’s last sentence of the original post is the most relevant, “Parental anxiety is a powerful thing and perhaps we need to exercise more care in how we use it.”
(And don’t monkey around with DIY chelation, even if it at the health-food store.)
Regan
Jun 16, 2008 at 7:00 pm
“Other bloggers have discussed the details of the particular papers more thoroughly than I ever could, with citations and in some cases, direct correspondence–LB/RB, Respectful Insolence, AutismDiva, Autism Street, Neurodiversity. etc.”
And AutismVox.
(That was an egregious omission. Sorry).
Bink
Jun 16, 2008 at 7:07 pm
What Regan said.
Also, I note that a simple search of Dr. Payne’s name turns up the fact that it is 34 years since he graduated from medical school. I don’t know how old his autistic child is, but I get the distinct feeling, based on his cites, that he is pretty new to all of this. An older father having a kid on the spectrum, go figure. What a shock.
Obviously, though, he doesn’t plan on becoming a DAN-type Brave Maverick Doctor. Because those types have an abundance of personal charm. They have to be able to listen to weeping parents with a thoughtful expression on their faces and to take time to hand-hold, and to say things like “we have to get him well.” Say “well” a lot, quacks-in-training! It gets you out of saying “cure” or “recovery” but still implies the same thing. (I have more helpful hints for any doctor or “doctor” who is eyeing the DAN moneypot speculatively. Just ask me. It involves studying the fable “The Emperor’s New Clothes” and imitating the tailors.)
Kev
Jun 17, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Hello…? Mike….? Dr Payne….?
Something I said?