The Music Stops Here: Autistic Boy Blocked from Entering Store
The owner of Lane Music Center, a music store on Staten Island, blocked 13-year-old Ryan Morales, who has autism, and his caregiver from entering. According to today’s Staten Island Advance:
“I’m sorry, I’m not going to let you in,” owner Alan Wilcov reportedly told Ryan’s caregiver, Oluwaseun Cole, whose job it is to take Ryan on walks through the community to familiarize him with the social rituals of everyday life. “I just can’t let him in,” Cole said Wilcov had told him on Wednesday afternoon.
“I have a problem with his kind,” he allegedly told Ryan’s parents and caregiver later that night, when they went to the store to discuss what had happened; it was a heated conversation that left both parties fuming.
Wilcov may have violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). Department of Justice spokeswoman Cynthia Magnuson notes that:
“It would be a violation of the ADA to prevent a person with a disability from entering……..Businesses have a responsibility to give access to people with disabilities– just like anyone else. In this circumstance, it seems likely that there was a violation.”
My son Charlie loves music and he also really enjoys shopping—and it could be said that he does not always act “appropriately: He gets very excited to be in a grocery store in particular, runs back and forth, and leaves the shopping basket in the middle of the aisle. People sometimes look a little puzzled; mostly, they just go about their business and we do too.
Preventing Ryan Morales from entering a music store because of his “kind” is no way to run a business.
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POSTED IN: Disability Rights, Music
47 opinions for The Music Stops Here: Autistic Boy Blocked from Entering Store
Callista
Jul 21, 2007 at 4:50 pm
It’s sad, but not surprising. People who run businesses don’t want “embarrassing” people in their stores–it’ll drive the customers away!
I recently overheard my supervisor–at a Goodwill store–say that she would not allow a Down Syndrome man back into the store unless his mother was with him. Apparently he likes to buy old videos, and can’t always figure out how much to pay. (And isn’t that what a sales clerk is supposed to help with, anyway?)
KimJ
Jul 21, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Aside from surly checkout clerks, we’ve never had too much trouble from retailers. It’s fellow customers and passersby that have hassled us when my son has had an outburst.
I’m surprised that the store owner used such obvious language.
Joseph
Jul 21, 2007 at 6:53 pm
An honest bigot is what comes to mind. Where did I hear that before?
Suggestions on what can be done?
Niksmom
Jul 21, 2007 at 7:09 pm
I would hope the local schools and organizations who might otherwise shop at this store would boycott and take their business elsewhere, for starters. I think I read in the comments to the actual article that there was a uestion about English not being the storeowner’s first language and that he might not have understood “that kind” as offensive or derogatory.
At the very least, the guy needs a lesson in basic humanity (or would that be humility? ;-) ), followed by an education about autism and then about ADA laws!
Joseph
Jul 21, 2007 at 7:21 pm
“Staten Island has often supported Ryan. Neighbors donate to the Eden II School in Ryan’s name and walked as a team in a recent fund-raiser for Autism Speaks”
So they funded an organization that has sent a message to the effect that it’s perfectly normal for parents to consider killing their autistic children. It would be ironic if they now have a problem with a store owner not wanting to have Ryan in his store. (I know, maybe they just ignore all the political going-ons of the autism world).
Justthisguy
Jul 21, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Not enough detail here. Has the shopkeeper had problems with small auties, uncontrolled by parents, just playing with the goods because they’re cool ‘n shiny or something, or has he had a problem with being in the same space with weird people, or what? Has he had complaints from other customers, or is he just un-comfy being in the presence of auties?
Seems like he might be alienating a potentially perseverative perfect purchaser.
Joseph
Jul 21, 2007 at 7:39 pm
What the parents allegedly recall discussing with the shopkeeper is appalling. He basically said no one would think of buying a drumset for “that kind”.
Apparently he used the “kind” word multiple times. I’m inclined to believe the parents based on those descriptions (the shopkeeper denies using that language). I also don’t believe it’s explained by a translation issue.
KimJ
Jul 21, 2007 at 8:29 pm
The article itself gives more explanation. It’s what I guessed, drums are his special interest and they reward him by taking him to count the drums and sheet music. He went (presumably without buying anything) several times in a short period (4 times w/in 2 days).
We do this too with a video game store. The story says this boy didn’t disrupt. I can say that my son has. Nevertheless, our money is just as green as the next person’s and when we buy-we spend at the store we also loiter in.
Sarah
Jul 21, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Well, from a legal point stores are not public property-they are generally the property of the individual or corporation that holds title. Therefore the title holder, LLC, or manager can refuse service to anyone. On the other hand if the choice is made to refuse service the best way is to simply tell someone to leave and do not give a direct reason since telling a disabled person they cannot be present due to disability is a good way to have 12 honest men and women award damages in a civil suit against the business owner. It is hard to tell if people have a disability so always err on the side of caution.
Anything you say or do can be held against you in a court of law is true in all business dealings.
The last time I banned someone from property it was for loitering. Now, loitering is a great way to get rid of problem people. Loitering is when they do not conduct business and do not spend money. Disrupting normal operations is a good reason that is not legally offensive.
Video cameras are a business owners friend in these matters because you can let the world see why the offending persons were asked to leave. I have people offer to sue me until I produce those tapes. I offer my own counter suit. Then they slink away.
It is often not what people do that gets them in civil court…..it is what they say and how they say it. Most people sue for civil damages because of pride. This music store owner is probably going to find himself in court. If I were his counsel I would suggest that he read his insurance and bond underwriters documents, produce video security tapes, sworn depositions from other patrons who were negatively affected by the family, and to KEEP HIS MOUTH FIRMLY SHUT from now on.
~Sarah
Justthisguy
Jul 21, 2007 at 9:15 pm
I can’t even attempt to count the huge number of books I’ve read most of, while standing up in the bookstore. I’ve then bought a lot of those books, too.
This kind of music shop might be different, if it caters to the rock ‘n roll people. They seem, in general, to be rowdier than I am. I am minded of the scene in “The Blues Brothers” in which Ray Charles, though blind, fires a shot into the wall right next to the hand of the kid attempting to steal an (spit!) electric guitar.
Justthisguy
Jul 21, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Hardware stores are problematic, too. If one “browses”, just doing what a woman in a clothing store would call “shopping”, he gets followed around by an offensively pretend-helpful clerk who I think suspects one of intent to shoplift.
I’ve had to be a be a bit rude to such clerks, so that they would leave me alone long enough to figure out what I wanted to buy.
Justthisguy
Jul 21, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Ok, Sarah, I think I understand what you mean. I think you’re proposing that the parents and caregivers of the autie kid took him there to amuse him, with no intention of buying anything. That’s grounds for ejecting anybody.
That said, I think the shopkeeper could use some “social skills training.”
Oh, my extensinal definition of a Sisyphean task: Teaching manners to Yankees.
Justthisguy
Jul 21, 2007 at 9:45 pm
I just had a comment disappear when I tried to post it, so I’ll try and reconstruct it.
Sarah, I see your point about people coming into the store to amuse themselves with no intention of buying anything.
I also think that this shopkeeper could use some “social skills training.”
Maybe one day, when we still have some time left before the end of the world, we can teach manners to yankees.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 21, 2007 at 10:01 pm
I am wondering to what extent the parents and the therapist explained to the owner what was going on, and why Ryan might come frequently to the store, but not buy anything (I say this as someone who has spent a lot of time with Charlie in Target and Barnes & Noble and not bought a single thing). I guess the shopkeeper was worrying about the reactions of his other customers—–and it would have been well if he had thought that Ryan would have a reaction to be blocked from the store.
That said, the words “that kind” have some terrible resonances.
Sarah
Jul 21, 2007 at 11:59 pm
I do not have an opinion (concerning the family being asked to leave) one way or the other because I was not there. I do not know what transpired and too many times I have seen video logs that do not match up to the offended party’s statement.
I do think the shopkeeper showed remarkable bad taste and dependent on the disposition of said family could find himself sued for civil damages like pain and suffering. Juries have awarded large sums…..Denny’s a few years back springs to mind. As I recall that was a African American relations issue that cost Denny’s a great deal of money.
This is a free country and property owners have rights. However, adding insult to injury is not among them.
Discretion is the better part of valor. As an Aspie I do not want to see any one on the Spectrum banned or unwelcome. However I also know the law in this regard and the shopkeeper has rights to his property. I also feel that he bit off more than he could chew public relations wise. It appears he is from another culture. My travels have taught me that there is less litigation in most of the world and shopkeepers can conduct themselves anyway they please back home.
Not so in the U.S. I have dealt with my share of tinfoil hatters and I never never never tell them to leave because I think they are crazy. I tell them no loitering. If they refuse to go I call 911. Then I take out a trespass order and if I see them again they get arrested and they can explain it all to the Judge downtown. Not my problem anymore and absolves me from civil suit.
12 men and women handing out a pain and suffering claim could put this guy out of business. Many immigrants do not know how much insurance they need and are not bonded ect. My bond is $2 million dollars. Sometimes I wonder if that is enough.
Next year, this time…..that music store might be vacant. That is a high price to pay for indiscretion.
I can hear the attorney for the family now…..’ladies and gentlemen of the jury……my client is Autistic. The shopkeeper stated he ‘did not want his ‘kind’ present. If we substitute Autistic for Jewish or Black would it make the discrimination apply to most of this jury? Do the civil rights of the shopkeeper extend to harassment of my client on the most basic level?
The family can probably get really good council because the payoff is likely to be high. The shopkeeper may not be able to afford the guy he needs to win. Settle now. Keep your shop. Keep mouth firmly closed from now on.
~Sarah
anon_please
Jul 22, 2007 at 12:07 am
The photos of the inside of the store are interesting. Extreme precision in the layout of the sheet music and the guitars are lined up along the wall with geometric precision. I wonder who designed this? Was it the shopkeeper?
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 22, 2007 at 12:11 am
anon_please, are you suggesting what I was kind of wondering about when I was reading about the shopkeeper’s insensitive remarks?
anon_please
Jul 22, 2007 at 1:31 am
Moi?
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 22, 2007 at 1:47 am
Mais oui!
anon_please
Jul 22, 2007 at 1:53 am
How do I say: “You caught me” in Latin?
PS I did take Latin long, long ago.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 22, 2007 at 1:56 am
Tu me cepistis? Long live Latin…..I’m thinking this story has more wrinkles than have been first revealed.
Justthiguy
Jul 22, 2007 at 2:54 am
Hmm, I sometimes think that some people who object to autistic behavior have a little touch of the “A” themselves.
Phil Schwarz
Jul 24, 2007 at 2:14 am
“However I also know the law in this regard and the shopkeeper has rights to his property.” Actually, that’s wrong, precisely because it’s a retail store — a place of public accommodation or commerce. A business’s office would have the kind of property rights Sarah is thinking of, but a retail establishment does *not*, as long as it is in business as a retail establishment. It can eject people for creating a disturbance, but not for an arbitrary — even carefully unspecified — reason.
Joe Mele
Jul 24, 2007 at 8:57 am
Ok
While I do find it ironic that the parents support Autism Speaks with its message. But they are deserving of support from the community at large.
Autistics come in all varieties. Unless there is a specific reason like a meltdown due to noise (unavoidable in music store) this is simply
outrageous and intolerable.
Anyone up for a peaceful protest? Signs with Let Ryan in?
I’m game.
Kelli Reilly
Jul 24, 2007 at 9:31 am
I had no idea it was considered “loitering” to go into a store and not buy anything. I take my autistic son to Toys-R-Us (because he likes to look at the fans on the ceiling) and to Target all the time– as a reward to just walk around the store. We haven’t had any problem doing that– so far.
I will say that people can be real jerks– very judgmental. My son was having a meltdown in a grocery store, and while his aides were off in an aisle trying to work with him, I was paying for the groceries. I had to stand there and listen to all the customers bad mouth him and me: (”If I were his mother, I’d throw him in the freezer!”– or — “If it were me, I would just leave the store! What does his mother think she’s doing by letting him scream like that?”) After standing there and enduring all the comments, I loudly exclaimed, “That boy is my son and he has autism!” Total silence fell upon the aisles. People have no clue what we parents go through. People throw around their comments like they are experts and would know exactly what to do in that situation– but they have no clue! I hope those jerks in the store got an education that day.
And as for the store clerk, I think he’s a real jerk, too!!
TR Kelley
Jul 24, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Taking up space in a store and not spending any money there is rude, especially if anyone in your party’ has behavior that is off-putting to other customers who may actually be spending money. Be autistic in public. But it is only fair to pay for the privilege of being in a store like everyone else. Businesses are not museums, daycares or exploratoriums.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 24, 2007 at 7:38 pm
True. Nonetheless, there is a politer way to request that a customer leave, or to notify him or her about something.
Kelli Reilly
Jul 24, 2007 at 8:46 pm
TR Kelley,
Excuse me, but who do you think you are? Who does it hurt if my son walks around Toys R Us a couple of times? He is not disrupting anything. If anyone has a problem with that, then they need to get a life. I will continue to take my son to Toys R Us or Target to look at the fans all he wants, and if anyone has a problem with that, then that is just TOO BAD. If Toys R US is a museum or an “exploratorium” to my son, then I’m going to let him enjoy it. He’s not asking for much. Any patron that has a problem with that, then get a life!!! TR Kelley– YOU are the one who is RUDE.
Joe Mele
Jul 24, 2007 at 9:46 pm
FYI TR Kelley is a member of the raventones.
TR Kelley
It is not rude to “window shop” In fact it is a pastime for many people. In fact you know why stores are setup with ailes? In the old days you told the proprietor what you want and he got it. But they found of people browse more people buy ie impulse buys.
Everybody talks a good game. but nobody really cares. Nobody wants to do a protest cause they want to look respectable. which is more important than making a difference. Which is why we even had a holocaust and slavery.
Kelli Reilly
Jul 24, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Who are the “raventones”?
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 24, 2007 at 11:02 pm
The Raventones
Justthisguy
Jul 24, 2007 at 11:04 pm
Ah, the “Raventones” is a weird band consisting of weird TR Kelley and a weird guy she hangs out with, who make some fairly pleasant music, judging by the samples I heard, a while ago. TR Kelley also has a blog on which she writes things I like to read.
Kelli Reilly
Jul 24, 2007 at 11:32 pm
Well, I don’t care if she’s with the Rolling Stones. She lacks empathy, whoever she is.
Kelli Reilly
Jul 24, 2007 at 11:41 pm
I just read on TR Kelley’s website that she has Asperger’s, yet I read here in her last email that she looks down on parents who take their autistic children into their favorite stores so that they can enjoy looking around in them. I am stunned by that. You just never know, do you?
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 24, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Diversity of opinions even among like-minded persons is more than allowed—–
Kelli Reilly
Jul 24, 2007 at 11:47 pm
And I agree with Joe Mele– people go into stores to “look”, whether they buy anything or not! That’s what stores are for. It’s called “browsing” or “window shopping.” That’s not against the law– and people have a right to do it. And there is nothing wrong with taking your child into their favorite store to look around. That’s what stores are for. Some people sure need to lighten up!
Kelli Reilly
Jul 24, 2007 at 11:48 pm
Diversity of opinions is fine if they make sense.
J. Moran
Jul 25, 2007 at 12:03 am
Miss PhD,
It is also easy to declare “diversity of opinions” when you aren’t the one the person is coming down on.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 25, 2007 at 12:07 am
Yes, thank you for pointing that out. (I’m a Ms., actually.)
Justthisguy
Jul 25, 2007 at 2:32 am
Just thought I’d let y’all know; It appears that The Donovan is one kitty ahead of TR Kelley now, his latest rescue brings the numbers of the Interior Guard at the New Castle Argghh! up to nine.
He and the missus are at http://www.thedonovan.com. It’s the best place for Gun Pr0n on the whole Net!
Justthisguy
Jul 25, 2007 at 2:45 am
Umm, that’s Castle Argghhh! Major Donovan insists that we spell it that way. Them’s the rules! He’s not autistic, he asserts. Snerk.
TR Kelley
Jul 28, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Uh….. wow what a social bullying sort of response! Who do i *think* i am? I know who i am , i’m an autistic adult with opinions and points of view like anyone else, some of which you will not agree with. I am also a non-chain shopper, i never go into big store like Target, i agree they’re probably perfect for the types of sighteeing you’re describing. In the debate about stores i was instantaneously reliving my 3 hellish years in a retail sewing machine dealership, craft and fabric store with parents basically turning their kids loose to “play” while they flipped through pattern books. My sewing machines would get broken, paints opened, fabric covered with candy goo, thread unwound, and the parents would turn a blind eye and leave the store assuming someone else was responsible because it was, well, a store. My husband worked in a music store and dealt with the same thing. Autism has intrinsically nothing to do with that, it’s parental irresponsibility to let kids run wild in a store, no matter what the kid’s mental comdition. So Kelli, my knee jerk reaction about kids in stores hit your emotional soft spot about kids in stores, sorry about that.
I’ve thrice been asked to calm down or leave in big stores myself because i start yelling back at the intercoms when they get “too loud” for me to bear. It’s horribly embarrasing. It’s a fact of life. Yeah, i have empathy.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 28, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Thanks for sharing all that, TR. Craft stores (like Michael’s) do not have a good effect on my son—–we do not go into them often and when we do, it is a fast visit.
KimJ
Jul 28, 2007 at 8:35 pm
I’m speaking for myself and guessing on Kelly’s reaction, but rather than bullying TR Kelly, she was defensive? Referring to window shopping with an autistic child as “rude” and arguing against the practice really rubbed me the wrong way.
I’ll keep with the topic at hand, a boy who was accompanied by an aide and being rewarded for good behavior. With that description of the event, we can assume the boy wasn’t destroying anything, shouting or running amok. The owner of the store doesn’t state that anything was broken or threatened or if people complained of the noise. He simply didn’t feel comfortable to see an autistic person in his store more than once day.
To elaborate on living skills training, walking in the neighborhood helps the child adapt to the environment. My son was unable to eat in restaurants without having an outburst or something to make us rush out. After a couple of visits with a coach, Pop got over the anxiety of being in a diner, waiting for the food and others to eat. We are able to patronize restaurants on a regular basis because of a couple of visits and loitering moments.
Why wouldn’t a store owner encourage this kid to loiter and learn more about instruments and music? He just may be a valuable patron soon. And please don’t compare this with your examples of random children running amok, it’s a different circumstance.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jul 28, 2007 at 8:47 pm
KimJ—-I guess it could be said that it indeed takes a village plus, and a lot of understanding, to do good by our kids. My son gets very excited just to be in a store at times; I try to be pro-active and mention that he has autism, and that he is (as he is) excited and that’s his way of expressing it.
Charlie also “loiters” frequently—sometimes I’ve noted to anyone who looks puzzled that it just takes him longer to process his surroundings. I try to keep smiling—–
Jewels
Jul 20, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Why is TR Kelly so mad.Don’t you want things to get better for the younger generation?I do.My Son is 16 and is a member of the aspergers culture and I can see the changes for the better when it comes to the general public and understanding when it comes to smaller kids.But not so much with older ones.He doesn’t act out anymore,but he can do and say things that a closed minded person will get upset with.What it comes down to is we should all try to help all of our kids and young people to be all they can,and if that means over looking a little difference or shopping with out buying, then that is not much to ask and it will only better the community you and yours lives in.
Justthisguy
Jul 20, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Jewels, don’t pick on TR Kelley, look up her blog and read all of it that’s available. She’s been thorougly picked on by all kinds of people since she was a little kid.
If you read what TR has written, youbetcha she wants things to be better for the younger generation, and exerts herself without pay to try to make that happen!
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