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Autism Vox

The New McCarthyism

by Kristina Chew, PhD on October 28th, 2007

If you hear about Arthur Miller—a witch hunt—McCarthyism—-the first thing that might come to mind is Miller’s 1952 play The Crucible, which is often interpreted as an allegory for the McCarthy Hearings. In 1952, Joe McCarthy, the junior senator from Wisconsin, proclaimed that 205 Communists had infiltrated the State department. Actors, screenwriters, directors and others associated with Hollywood had been investigated by the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) since 1947; many who refused to cooperate with the HUAC lost their jobs in the film industry and were blacklisted. Said Miller in a Paris Review interview, as noted in an essay by Tom Shafer:

In this general atmosphere of fear and suspicion, Arthur Miller was reminded of a topic he had researched for a play while a student at the University of Michigan. When “the McCarthy era came along,” he told The Paris Review, “I remembered these stories and I used to tell them to people when it [the Red Scare] started. I had no idea that it was going to go as far as it went. I used to say, you know, McCarthy is actually saying certain lines that I recall the witch-hunters saying in Salem. So I started to go back, not with the idea of writing a play, but to refresh my own mind because it was getting eerie.

McCarthy was on his own witch hunt to rout out any Communists and the atmosphere of “guilt, accusation, suspicion, and dread” generated is precisely conveyed by the witchcraft-fearing Puritans of Miller’s play.

But The Crucible is not exactly the subject here.

When I have mentioned Miller here, it is to refer to his son, Daniel Miller, who has Down Syndrome and who Miller did not acknowledge for most of his life. I have referred to witch hunts in reference to vaccines, which some believe is the cause of their child having autism. And McCarthy—-well, let’s say that is a surname mentioned often here as of the past month, thoughin regard to Jenny not Joe.

And, it could be said, we (”we” being the “autism community”) are living in the era of the New McCarthyism. An era in which the hunt is on for the terrible scourge that is damaging an epidemic number of America’s children, that is infiltrating the current generation with mercury or some autism-causing thing, that is perhaps even invading the very air we breeze (did someone mention pollution wafting across the Pacific Ocean from Chinese factories?) and poisoning the youth of tomorrow with some foul contagion. The source of this evil has a name, some say—vaccines—and it is on the list of many to be questioned and even brought to trial (the third trial of the Autism Omnibus Proceedsings is scheduled for November in Orlando; the second was in Charlotte, North Carolina; the first was held in June).

In commentary in the October 27th Wall Street Journal, Ari Brown, a pediatrician in Austin, Texas and a fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics, writes about the demonization of the vaccine program in the wake of the publication and publicizing of Jenny McCarthy’s book Louder Than Words: A Mother’s Journey in Healing Autism. She notes two “medical misaccuracies”:

Parents go through stages of grief when their child is diagnosed with a disorder like autism. We all want to blame someone for our suffering. That’s understandable. Was there something we could have done as parents to prevent this? But why hasn’t the media called out Ms. McCarthy on all the medical inaccuracies in her book? Has anyone actually read it? I have — cover to cover. Here are two revealing points:

Ms. McCarthy told Oprah that her son was a normal toddler until he received his Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine (at 15 months of age). Soon after — boom — the soul is gone from his eyes. Yet she contradicts herself in her book: “My friends’ babies all cracked a smile way before Evan did . . . he was almost five months old.” Which is it? Was he normal until his MMR vaccine or were some of the signs missed before he got that shot?

Ms. McCarthy also contends that mercury in vaccines caused damage to her son’s gut and immune system, leading to autism. Yet the mercury preservative Ms. McCarthy assails was removed from the childhood vaccination series in 2001. Her son, Evan, was born in 2002. It’s hard to trust Ms. McCarthy’s medical degree from the University of Google — she comments about the Hepatitis C vaccine that wreaked havoc on a friend’s child. An inconvenient truth: There is no Hepatitis C vaccine.

Brown notes that McCarthy is “in the trenches, fighting for her son” but she, too, is fighting, to “keep our kids healthy and protected.” Those who critique McCarthy are often themselves critiqued, and harshly, for not simply applauding her efforts for increasing autism awareness. Mention her interesting past exploits (1994 Playmate of the Year, among other endeavors) and one gets soundly drubbed (look at some of the comments on an earlier post; I am curious what this post might generate).

Vaccines as “a” or “the” cause of autism, the gluten-free casein-free diet, yeast—all theories and potential remedies that have been the talk of autism parents for at least the past decade—-have been given a new life in the media, due to McCarthy’s claims about what may have caused her son to become autistic, and what may have helped him. Due to her celebrity, it is no surprise that what McCarthy says and does in regard to autism gets much more attention than anything here ever might, but misinformation can be misleading, can even be dangerous. Biomedical treatments for autism are unproven; Dr. Roy Kerry has been charged with involuntary manslaughter in the August 2005 death of 5-year-old Abubakar Tariq Nadama while the boy was undergoing chelation therapy in the doctor’s office. Brown opens her Wall Street Journal commentary with an account of a 7-year-old girl who was brought to the emergency room of Children’s Hospital Boston.

The girl had come down with chickenpox a few days earlier — she had a fever and hundreds of itchy skin lesions. That night, she had taken a turn for the worse. Her fever shot up to 106 and she became confused and lethargic. She was unresponsive and limp in her mother’s arms.

The ER doctors suspected that her open sores allowed Strep bacteria to get under her skin and rage through her bloodstream. Now she was in “multiple system organ failure” — every square inch of her body was shutting down all at once. IVs were placed into her veins to start fluids, antibiotics and medications to stabilize her heart and blood pressure. She was placed on a ventilator machine to breathe. Then she was brought to the Intensive Care Unit.

By the time I met my patient, she had tubes coming out of every opening and weeping skin lesions all over her body. I was used to blood and gore, but it was hard to look at her and not cry. Imagine how her parents felt when they saw their once-beautiful little girl in this grotesque state, struggling to survive.

My attending physician told me to grab dinner. This child would need me for the rest of the night. I returned to the ICU to find that my patient had gone into cardiac arrest and died. I watched, helplessly, as the nurses placed the little girl into a body bag.

Fast forward five months: The first chickenpox vaccine was approved. That day, I vowed never to let a child on my watch suffer from a disease that was preventable by vaccination.

Brown coins the phrase the “New McCarthyism”; now it is the vaccine program that is being demonized as fear of vaccines leads parents to act in contradiction to their own beliefs.

Call it the New McCarthyism: Who cares about 100 years of scientific research? Vaccines are evil, because the Internet says they are. When a well-meaning parent like Ms. McCarthy blames vaccines for her child’s autism, it’s dangerous. Celebrity books come and go, but the anxiety they create lives on in pediatricians’ offices across the country. A small but growing number of parents are even lying about their religious beliefs to avoid having their children vaccinated, thanks in part to the media hysteria created by this book.

Joe McCarthy’s support and popularity began to fade in the 1954 Army-McCarthy hearings; he was censured by the United States Senate, which voted to “condemn” Senator Joseph McCarthy by a vote of 67 to 22 on December 2, 1954. “McCarthyism” has come to mean “the use of methods of investigation and accusation regarded as unfair, in order to suppress opposition” and to be associated more generally with the making of “demagogic, reckless, and unsubstantiated accusations.” In the New McCarthysim, those who prefer not to talk about curing autism, or suggest that there is no epidemic of autism, or that a link between vaccines and autism is a myth, or that our better understanding of autism and better diagnosis are important reasons for the rising prevalence of autism, or that sometimes growing up and getting older are the reasons that a child does better,: Those who make such claims and arguments are roundly decried, criticized, and castigated, and I would not be surprised if Ari Brown receives such treatment for writing her article and for stating her beliefs about vaccines.

In the New McCarthyism, who is John Proctor? And who is Abigail?

POSTED IN: Drama, Epidemic, History, Media, Politics, Rhetoric, Science, Vaccines

108 opinions for The New McCarthyism

  • Harold L Doherty
    Oct 28, 2007 at 6:23 am

    Just WHO are the New McCarthyites in this Neurodiversity fairytale?

    Parents seeking cures for their children’s autism disorders or the Neurodiversity bloggers who demonize them, as you have done, once again, with this comment.

  • Heraldblog
    Oct 28, 2007 at 8:34 am

    Harold, I know science isn’t your thing, but could you point to something Christina wrote that you disagree with, then present evidence to back up your claim? Let’s start with “cure” - how do you define it, and what cures are you talking about? How do you know autism is curable? Please feel feel to cite real medical studies.

  • Autismville
    Oct 28, 2007 at 9:58 am

    Clowns to the left, jokers to the right … :)

    Seems we always focus on the extremes. In my idealistic heart I:

    1) Love my child with autism through and through
    2) Know that if he suffered from diabetes or asthma, I would definitely want to treat/cure the illness. I feel exactly the same about the autism that, in my opinion is paralyzing his ommunication system.
    3) Don’t have a clue what caused this complex disorder
    4) Am considering posing in the buff so maybe I can be on Oprah one day as well. I just need to save up for some plastic surgery first…

  • Harold L Doherty
    Oct 28, 2007 at 10:37 am

    Heraldblog

    Are childish insults part of the scientific method you employ as part of your science “thing”?

    You are off topic. FYI I do not subscribe to the autism-vaccine theories. The science is “out” on causes of autism although they appear to be getting close with the research explosion taking place today.

    What is most disturbing is that instead of rational discussion with those who advocate autism-vaccine links, you and other Neurodiversity advocates, use childish insult, (see your comments again) and your own brand of McCarthyism. (See my comment).

    Such personal attacks are counter productive in persuading people that there is no autism-vaccine connection.

    And lets’ face it. When you are ideologically opposed to curing autism your views about what constitute cures for autism or causes of autism will be taken with a large grain of salt.

  • Another Voice
    Oct 28, 2007 at 11:04 am

    Kristina,

    Thanks for posting this. The fact that you actually read what people have published and point out inconsistencies is very helpful to most of your readers. I don’t view your comments as demonizing in any way.

  • Heraldblog
    Oct 28, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    It takes two sides to have a rational discussion. But conversation is pointless when the one side falls back on conspiracy theories, junk science, and magical thinking to make its point.

    I am not going to reason a person out of a position he didn’t reason himself into.

  • Kristina Chew, PhD
    Oct 28, 2007 at 12:11 pm

    @Autismville: But will you vlog the posting in the buff—–

    @Another Voice: Thank you, ever and as always. Thanks to for your points here, Heraldblog: Harold L. Doherty’s comments are consistently, repetitively, unexpectedly the same in tone, content, and perspective.

    @Harold: Thanks much.

  • Daisy
    Oct 28, 2007 at 12:47 pm

    We Wisconsinites are a bit embarrassed to call Joe McCarthy one of our own. I don’t consider Jenny McCarthy to be a spokesperson for me; her book is too reactionary and not well researched or thought-out. Vaccines? I wish I’d had a booster of pertussis before I got sick with it two summers ago. It was two months of illness followed by a long recovery period.

  • KimJ
    Oct 28, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    How ironic to be accusing others of doling out “childish insults” when Harold was the first to (falsely) accuse Kristina of demonizing autism parents.

    I really don’t know what to make of the Jenny McCarthy buzz. There are Jenny apologists that deny what she has said on national tv. Is there some secret code going on that detractors don’t understand? I watched her on The View and she said her son was no longer autistic. She said it.
    Yet people maintain that she never said he was cured.
    At this point, I could care less about her past. And I do think it’s stooping a bit to keep on bringing it up when there are more pressing matters. What’s so offensive is how she discusses autism (its traits, causes and cures) in such a disorganized, negative manner. She makes grand claims that someone is always willing to say that she didn’t make. Criticizing these claims and their contradictions isn’t nit-picking either.

  • gettingthere
    Oct 28, 2007 at 7:57 pm

    Kristina, I’ve always found your posts to be fair and balanced. You provide a valuable public service for me and others by sharing your experiences with Charlie and by gathering the interesting and informative articles presented in your blog. For that, I’d like to thank you.

    When it comes to vaccines and autism, I can only say that in my son’s case, he was born autistic. For him, I’d say it’s down to genetics. From the second day of his life, I noticed “oddities” the doctors proclaimed to be normal. As he grew older, I realised that he was a more extreme version of myself. Other family members on both sides have autistic traits as well.

    On the question of a cure, I certainly wanted him to be a “normal” child without the “behaviors” that made it impossible for him to be permanently accepted in a classroom before the age of 7 years 11 months. However, my mom, a retired special ed teacher, insisted that the best treatment was him was time, patience, and home schooling. It worked for him. Is he cured of his autism? No, but with time, maturity, and speech, he’s changed beyond recognition from the child he was. I’ve also abandoned my attempts to force him to pass for “normal” and we’re both a lot happier.

    Were I the parent of a non-verbal, self-harming or violent child, I’d certainly want to find a practical way of communicating (sign language, PECS, assistive devices, whatever) with him and stopping/curing/eliminating the harmful behavior. I’d find absolutely no joy in a situation where my child couldn’t tell me he was in pain or ask for help if he was lost. However, I won’t be willing to try financially ruinous or potentially harmful treatments.

  • Robin H. Morris
    Oct 28, 2007 at 8:20 pm

    Robin H. Morris
    Oct 28, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    Sorry, I posted this response as a comment on the piano piece.

    Hi Kristina,
    We are certainly on the same page, as I wrote a blog earlier today, following my reading the Wall Street Journal article by Ari Brown.
    Do I believe that Jenny McCarthy is a poor human being? No. Do I think that her “voice” can do harm? Yes.
    I agree that it is particularly difficult to posture oneself as the final word on a subject. Somewhere in her flirting with Larry King and babbling on Oprah, she did mention that her belief related to her son only, but then she made broad statements about “never vaccinating a child if she had another”.
    We are a nation of creating idols. We build them up, then tear them down.
    My only worry is that the world will stop taking autism seriously if they think the cure is “around the corner”, or simply by getting rid of gluten.
    Where do we go from here?
    xr

  • Joseph
    Oct 28, 2007 at 8:44 pm

    What is most disturbing is that instead of rational discussion with those who advocate autism-vaccine links, you and other Neurodiversity advocates, use childish insult

    That is completely false. We present data and arguments. Still waiting on some rebuttals.

  • ANB
    Oct 28, 2007 at 9:27 pm

    Harold, you don’t get to redefine “McCarthyism” just to make a point. Christina isn’t demonizing anybody. You’re totally missing the point about Joseph McCarthy, the smear tactics he introduced, and their effects on people’s lives. It’s totally possible to fairly criticize somebody’s science without attacking the person. Real scientists criticize each others’ work all the time, and at the end of the day, nobody gets demonized, not even the curbies.

  • amy
    Oct 28, 2007 at 11:58 pm

    Re McCarthy — I think it’s a bit of an exaggeration. The thing that made McCarthy dangerous was the amount and kind of power he had. Ranty bloggers and columnists, not quite the same thing.

    Actually I’m dubious of the public-health value for the varicella vaccine. Not because I’m afraid it’ll cause disease, but because we don’t yet know how the immunity conferred compares with the immunity gained from actually getting chickenpox as a kid. If it’s not long-lived, it’ll be a painful and expensive problem down the line, because we all know how terrific adults are at going in for booster shots, which everyone can, of course, afford.

    After I turned down the vaccine for my daughter, I heard about the risk of group A strep infections and the difficulty of actually getting chickenpox now. The clearest numbers I’m seeing are from some Canadian and Israeli studies which show a pre-vaccine rate of chickenpox hospitalization of somewhere between 0.4% and 0.8% (If someone has a better or more recent study, please post.) Roughly a third to a half of those come in with bacterial infections, sometimes serious.

    I’m not inclined to worry about a risk like that — at worst, about 1/300 of her ending up with a bacterial complication of chickenpox — though I can see how reducing that rate makes sense on a fiscal level (if you ignore the possibility of immunity wearing off early). Even 0.4% of the population is a lot of people, and that’s expensive treatment. On the other hand, I do worry about her ability to catch the disease. So in her next round of shots, if she hasn’t had chickenpox, she’ll get that one too.

    (There’s also the consideration that going into the hospital for any reason while susceptible to infection is a bad idea. Hundreds of open sores + hospital, bad idea. Looked at that way, the effective risk for her becomes something like a 1/150 chance of serious infection with chickenpox, and that’s getting closer to a rate I’d do something about.)

  • Kristina Chew, PhD
    Oct 29, 2007 at 12:10 am

    Of course it’s an exaggeration! Although…….. Autismville has a good sense of why.

  • Rochelle
    Oct 29, 2007 at 12:17 am

    I’ve been away for a bit but looks like some things never change.

    hi, Kristina…

  • KimJ
    Oct 29, 2007 at 12:23 am

    I grew up in the country and didn’t know anyone who ever got chickenpox in their childhood. Though both my brother and I got chicken pox within a year of each other as adults. He got his from new relative (visiting new inlaws) and I got mine while working in a nursing home (I was told I couldn’t contract them from the infected resident). My brother got the adult version of itching (which is apparently worse than childhood itching) and sat in an oatmeal bath for a week. I got the painful kind, with an introductory flu-like illness (really high fever), I had them on my back, bottoms of my feet and in my mouth. I couldn’t eat for a week and was already underweight beforehand.
    And recurrent shingles doesn’t sound like something I’m looking forward to.

  • Steve D
    Oct 29, 2007 at 12:36 am

    Harold said:
    “What is most disturbing is that instead of rational discussion with those who advocate autism-vaccine links, you and other Neurodiversity advocates, use childish insult…

    Hmmm, let’s see. Here is a comment Mr. Doherty left as an informed, scientific critique on my blog a few days ago:
    “I guess I will have to follow your example and spend more time studying Star Trek and Dr. Who.”
    Well, THAT certainly doesn’t qualify as childish, does it?

    But we must mistake your meaning, being that you are an esteemed lawyer and powerful autism advocate. You couldn’t possibly make such contradictory statements, could you?
    But right here on this blog you said:
    “Such personal attacks are counter productive…”

    but you once said to me on my own blog (in reference to me):
    “Most parents are too grounded to transfer responsibility for their children’s development to a group of internet strangers.”

    Keep talking, Harold, and you will find you have fewer listeners as time goes on.

  • Steve D
    Oct 29, 2007 at 12:36 am

    Harold said:
    “What is most disturbing is that instead of rational discussion with those who advocate autism-vaccine links, you and other Neurodiversity advocates, use childish insult…

    Hmmm, let’s see. Here is a comment Mr. Doherty left as an informed, scientific critique on my blog a few days ago:
    “I guess I will have to follow your example and spend more time studying Star Trek and Dr. Who.”
    Well, THAT certainly doesn’t qualify as childish, does it?

    But we must mistake your meaning, being that you are an esteemed lawyer and powerful autism advocate. You couldn’t possibly make such contradictory statements, could you?
    But right here on this blog you said:
    “Such personal attacks are counter productive…”

    but you once said to me on my own blog (in reference to me):
    “Most parents are too grounded to transfer responsibility for their children’s development to a group of internet strangers.”

    Keep talking, Harold, and you will find you have fewer listeners as time goes on.

  • Kristina Chew, PhD
    Oct 29, 2007 at 12:53 am

    A friend got chicken pox as an adult at the same time as both of her children—-my mom worked in a hospital where an adult man was admitted and died of it. And I won’t go into my mother-in-law’s experience with shingles last year……. Rochelle, Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose……..

  • Julie
    Oct 29, 2007 at 10:30 am

    I like this post. I think some may be defending what Jenny said because if you only saw the interview with Oprah it was a different set of things that were said than on Larry King. O Oprah she said that this works for her son not for everyone and that her son will always have Autism on Larry King she claims that he no longer has autism. On Oprah she said he is recovering but will always have some traits on The view she said he no longer had Autism. It is hard when she contradicts herself and we as parents have to spend so much time ( that we do not have a lot extra of) explaining to well meaning family members and friends that she is not an expert on Autism just an expert on her son. Autism is so varied from child to child that it is hard to be an expert on anything relating to all of Autism but each of is has learned what works for our children and families and when some one with the noteriety of McCarthy goes on Tv talking as though she has been studing this in many children over the past decade it sens the wrong message to those who know little about Autism.

  • Dr. Mick
    Oct 29, 2007 at 11:04 am

    Like politics, this debate is extremely right or left of center. Whether you subscribe to J.M.’s opinion or not, children are sicker than they have ever been. We are trying to eradicate all germs, virus’ and bacterium in the name of public health and its making things worse. How about that MRSA! It is very difficult to make an informed decision when the conflicts of interest in big pharma are so numerous and you have an adverse event reporting system that is voluntary. If your M.D. knew a vaccine could kill your child, and they do, would you want to know? I would! Until I see a double blind placebo controlled study, the benchmark in science, I will not be vaccinating. Allow me to elaborate; I want to see a group of children get NO vaccine, a group get the current schedule of vaccines, and a group get what they think is a vaccine (placebo). This study has not been done. Vaccine science is the only science that gets a pass on the epitome of scientific research. There are plenty of people, like me, that would volunteer for the unvaccinated group. We must stop comparing our adverse events to other countries. Other countries, like Japan, do not have our vaccination schedule and have half or less of the mandatory vaccines being given here.

  • resilientmom
    Oct 29, 2007 at 11:49 am

    Julie,
    You are right on target here. I actually tapes Ms. McCarthy’s interviews, so I could respond accurately, and she did contradict herself on the talk shows.
    Her reference to “autism is like being hit by a bus and when your are cured, you still have boo boos ” analogy was a tough one for me.
    I do believe that she is out of her league when articulating scientific information. She appeared almost giddy as each show aired. Perhaps it is because she is an entertainer and having an audience is a rather ego massaging venture.
    I have been there.
    What is troubling is that countless viewers might actually take stock in her advice, which has definitely NOT been substantiated by the test of time.
    Given that we who have older children, we who have tried the gluten free diet, we who have done the Occupational Therapy, Physical Therapy, Auditory Therapy, Play therapy, Floor time, Speech Therapy, Hyperbaric Therapy, know that there is no known cure for autism.

  • ANB
    Oct 29, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Dr. Mick, do you see an ethical problem in not vaccinating children in order to test your hypothesis? Where would you find an IRB to approve that?

  • Beth
    Oct 29, 2007 at 4:13 pm

    I think the flaw in the study that Dr. Mick is recommending is not the ethics of using children whose parents have refused the vaccination. There are plenty of unvaccinated kids these days. The problem is with the placebo group. In that case, you have parents who think that their child has been vaccinated when, in fact, they have not. You can imagine the fallout if a “placebo” child should become seriously ill from an illness that a vaccination would have prevented.

  • Dr. Mick
    Oct 29, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    There are enough people who do not vaccinate to do this study. We could test the Amish, Christian scientist’s, and others who oppose mandatory vaccination. The ethics question is always used to justify not doing a double blind study. I see an ethics problem in not questioning that vaccination may cause a number of issues we see in children today either directly or as a catalyst. The three cornerstones of vaccinating are 1) the benefits out way the risks. This has not been proven, as I specified in my last post. 2) Herd Immunity-coined by A.C. Hentrich that if a population of people are immune to a certain disease then the rest of the herd will be immune by virtue of the majority. This was based on natural aquired immunity, not artificial immunity which is what vaccination is. 3)vaccines are safe and effective- safety has yet to be proven with regards to my last post and effective means in the words of the vaccine manuf. antibodies are produced, not clinical effectiveness, which they think their getting, which is that they don’t get the disease.

  • Steve D
    Oct 29, 2007 at 5:00 pm

    Dr Mick-
    “We could test the Amish, Christian scientist’s, and others who oppose mandatory vaccination.”
    The lack of random selection in and oif itself would invalidate study results.

    “I see an ethics problem in not questioning that vaccination may cause a number of issues we see in children today either directly or as a catalyst.”
    Epidemiological data do not suggest any sort of relationship, nor has there any biological mechanism proposed that was subsequently supported by good evidence wherein vaccines cause “a number of issues” by which you presumably mean autism.

    “2) Herd Immunity-coined by A.C. Hentrich that if a population of people are immune to a certain disease then the rest of the herd will be immune by virtue of the majority. This was based on natural aquired immunity, not artificial immunity which is what vaccination is.”
    Can you explain what the difference between the two scenarios is? Why would herd immunity resulting from vaccines be any different from herd immunity occurring naturally? Other than the fact that the most susceptible members of the herd don’t just die off when vaccines are utulized.

    “3)vaccines are safe and effective- safety has yet to be proven with regards to my last post and effective means in the words of the vaccine manuf. antibodies are produced, not clinical effectiveness, which they think their getting, which is that they don’t get the disease.”
    I’m a little puzzled by your sentence structure but…
    Vaccines do cause problems in some individuals, and we are warned of the known problems prior to each and every round of vaccinations. An informational sheet tells what to watch out for in terms of symptoms/reactions and the resulting appropriate action or treatment. Certain dangers are definitely known. Autism is not one of those dangers.

    I recommend that you read and consider this post:
    http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=121

  • ANB
    Oct 29, 2007 at 5:25 pm

    The Amish vaccinate, and they have autism. The Amish are also inbred, so they’re a poor choice for such a test.

  • Dr. Mick
    Oct 29, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    I agree with the “random selection” issue, none the less, we have got to start somewhere. How about testing the adjuvants and other additives alone? That has not been done either.
    Epidemiological data supports a link in certain circles as well. Two independent researchers have been doing studies to determine a link and their work has been largely disregarded.

    http://www.nomercury.org/geier.htm

    With regards to Herd Immunity, artificial immunity is not nearly as efficient as natural aquired immunity. For example, Chicken Pox. Once you get it you don’t get it again and you are immune for life, as well as, with Measles, Mumps, etc. With artificial immunity, booster shots are needed and there is still no guarantee that you will not get the disease. We still see Measles outbreaks in populations that are over 90% current on their vaccinations. So much for Herd Immunity. One more thing on the measles front. Since vaccination we have a new type of measles called “Atypical Measles”. Research suggests that it is a hybrid of sorts created by the vaccine.
    Most parents are unaware that their child could potentially die from something that is supposed to keep them healthy. They are also told that they are safe and effective, and the benefits of the vaccine out way the risks. There is enough efficacious peer reviewed research that refutes this. Sorry about my sentence structure. I am seeing patients in between some of my posts.

  • Steve D
    Oct 29, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    Dr. Mick,
    “Two independent researchers have been doing studies to determine a link and their work has been largely disregarded.”
    Their work has not been discregarded, ut has been discredited. Big difference.
    Please read all (and there is alot there to read) of the reports/essays on this linked page before spending too much more time on the
    Geiers:
    http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/109/lupron-geier-index

  • John Fryer
    Nov 4, 2007 at 6:33 am

    Hi
    Lets not forget the common link for both sides. Mercury is TOXIC.
    I want a world wide total ban on mercury in vaccines.
    Vaccine addicts who want to vaccinate 1 day children before the family knows anything about their new child should remember this had mercury added and may still have mercury in its production in 2007.
    Everyone knows you can’t prove brain destroying mercury is safe.
    Anyone that thinks any mercury in vaccine is safe is a fool.
    John Fryer MSc BSc Chemist

  • Beau Geste
    Nov 4, 2007 at 8:49 am

    John Fryer MSc BSc Chemist, everybody is exposed to mercury every day. Can you prove it hasn’t destroyed your brain?

  • Kristina Chew, PhD
    Nov 4, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    A lot of absolutist statements in your posting, Mr. Fryer—-

  • ANB
    Nov 4, 2007 at 6:14 pm

    It wasn’t meant as an insult, Harold. Just an observation. Science isn’t your thing. I’m sure there’s other things you’re good at.

  • John Fryer
    Nov 5, 2007 at 5:32 am

    Kristina
    You are right you dont get very far by being uncertain.
    Twelve years ago I was certain diazinon was causing problems but this should have gone in a world wide ban 7 years ago.
    Mercury is still in vaccines and you don’t need bad luck to get this stuff as Beau Geste reminds us.
    The dose is in the poison so why add to it if we get it every day, Beau Geste, or are you jesting when you say we are exposed every day?
    I am not aware that someone jabs me every day bypassing a million years of self defence mechanisms in the human body but you know better than me.
    John Fryer MSc BSc Advanced Analytical Chemist

  • John Fryer
    Nov 5, 2007 at 5:36 am

    Beau Geste
    I can prove its done my brains no good. I have endured it for 40 years in my body.
    Now the mercury amalgams have gone from my mouth I am beginning to see things better and think more clearly than I have done ever since the age of 16 or so when this brain destroying stuff was added to my mouth in exponentially rising quantities.
    John Fryer MSc BSc Advanced Analytical Chemist

  • Cliff
    Nov 5, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    A

  • Cliff
    Nov 5, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    A few questions, Mr. Fryer, since I have an interest in this issue (as many do here).

    We know that mercury is toxic at some levels, but so are many substances that we use. Can you demonstrate that the levels are high enough to be considered toxic?

    You make the assertion that “Everyone knows you can’t prove brain destroying mercury is safe.” Asides from bringing up issues of a universal standard, can you logically prove that you can’t prove it?

    Also, the amalgams. Isn’t the body absorption a one-shot and far below toxicity levels? Further, isn’t the mercury that might be an issue part of a compound, and thus not necessarily an issue?

    Finally, what exactly do you do, and have you worked explicitly with mercury?

    Cliff

  • Beau Geste
    Nov 5, 2007 at 12:37 pm

    Exponentially rising quantities?!?!? No offense, but you must have one huge pie hole!

  • Chuck
    Nov 5, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    Cliff,

    The US government has not set any threshold for toxicity for ethyl mercury. So any level above zero can be considered toxic to anyone who wishes to do so.

    Also,

    Can you provide a scientific study that proves Thimerosal is safe?

    Also, the amalgams. Isn’t the body absorption a one-shot and far below toxicity levels? Further, isn’t the mercury that might be an issue part of a compound, and thus not necessarily an issue?

    Both of these questions pertain to the total exposure to mercury. Just like alcohol, one-shot may not be intoxicating, nor would one drink that is only 12% alcohol by content “intoxicating”. Notice the key word “may”. The point of intoxication is determined by the individual and the amount of exposure.

    Finally, since you are a student that has not explicitly worked with mercury and yet have an opinion on it, why does it matter that other people’s opinions on this subject have to be supported directly with their career experiences and yet yours do not?

  • Cliff
    Nov 5, 2007 at 1:48 pm

    I wasn’t attacking the man, Chuck, I was asking some questions I hope he can answer.

    But I was looking at some studies regarding mercury and amalgams, actually looking for information regarding mercury in general, and had read this. Specifically, Journal of the American Dental Association 122:54-61, 1991. So I thought I would just ask if he had information to the contrary.

    And I’ve had discussions about themerisol, and I will admit I am skeptical about how dangerous it really is, and I won’t repeat them now. But there I was just asking regarding the assertion of the proof. I didn’t state “Themerisol is safe”, but questioned the logical state regarding the assertion “Everyone knows you can’t prove brain destroying mercury is safe”.

    And I don’t expect him to necessarily have worked with mercury, just wondering if he did, because if so I’d be interested in hearing what it is.

    I am not arguing here, but asking.

    Cliff

  • Chuck
    Nov 5, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    There is a simple answer to one of your questions,

    ”You make the assertion that “Everyone knows you can’t prove brain destroying mercury is safe.” Asides from bringing up issues of a universal standard, can you logically prove that you can’t prove it?”

    Currently, given medical sciences current limitations, the only medical test for all heavy metal toxins can only detect the toxins within the blood. Only two medical tests can detect heavy metal toxins not in the bloodstream. One, a X-ray if the mass of the toxin is large enough (ie gun shot or dental X-rays). Two, an autopsy.

  • John Fryer
    Nov 5, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    Hi Cliff

    Many substances are toxic.

    If a substance is toxic then we take a chance when we are exposed to it.

    You have the sorts of toxin that we can recover from.

    Carbon monoxide is a silent killer but if we don’t quite die we make a good or even perfect recovery.

    My baptism from being a chemist is to have been subjected to hydrogen sulphide for many years and various other noxious substances from which hopefully I have not suffered permanent harm.

    I have however watched people if you like drop out early from the toxic chemicals we all face today. When your friends die in their 30’s you take note and watch out very closely what is going on and why.

    The absolute measurements of LD50 and LD1 and slopes et al are a bit theoretical and the observed result is the observed result.

    LD1 means only one is dead and 99 survive.

    This is the problem. You inject millions of children and the few that die aren’t even called the LD0.1 they don’t exist officially.

    We say it is a coincidence. I can tell you it is no coincidence.
    If you try to kill animals they don’t like it and they hang on to life quite tenaciously.
    When a child gets a vaccine and dies then that is something. When two die at the same time after the same insult then you have a catastrophe which the UK authorities are happy to ignore even to the extent of imprisoning the family for life and longer. I know at least two who are still in prison and the government and law are more than happy to keep quiet about it.

    I went to them more than ten years ago concerning accidental exposures to neurotoxins and found examples.They listened for five minuites and the chemical of my interest eventually got banned.

    Ten years later we find these and others were deliberately put into vaccines and still are.

    This is not acceptable and anyone that says it is is a fool and those that inject the stuff are guilty of attempted murder.

    The evidence has been around not for decades but for thousands of years.

    We know from the ancients lead, cadmium and mercury are similar and cumulative.

    The mercury may disappear but after decades often we find not the levels of intake but levels of accumulation to absurd levels in the brain and heart.

    The evidence is colossal and it is appropriate to review one at a time.

    The single most damning evidence for me is Fritz Lorscheider and his mercury video.

    He very carefully chooses the level that a vaccine will be at if it is evenly diluted in the child’s body. He could have used concentrations a thousand times less.

    We know in fact that thimerosal is driven into the brain at a rate 5 times that of its close cousin which is present as an impurity in significant amount in any case as an impurity. There it becomes inorganic mercuy (11) in the form of the brain destroying experiment.

    Lead, aluminium and other toxic metals do not stop the growth of the neurons.

    Mercury is the most toxic non radioactive metal.

    It is catalytic which means a little goes a long way until it itself is poisoned!

    The WHO say there is no bottom limit at which mercury is harmless.

    It is not like salt or sugar with bottom and top limits.

    It is just something that should not be in vaccines.

    I can understand political and economic reasons to hide these uncormatable facts.

    But if someone who is independent supports these tactics then it is sad.

    You have to be open enough to accept you can make an error but if you know something is causing harm you need to shout it out.

    I have watched lead get debated like this for nearly 50 years and movement only began when the lead destroyed the catalysts that enabled cleaner more efficient fuels. Then the harm always known suddenly became obvious to everyone.

    Our best hope is that people will make vaccines without mercury and all the other toxins that actually are safe and do their job.

    After 7 years we have not moved forward but backwards on the mercury issue.

    100 similarities of mercury poisoning and autism are a coincidence.

    3 similarities of these 100 and three for SBS puts a family away for life and destroys their other children’s lives.

    Let’s use science and not Lynching or Witchfinding even if you can’t admit the world’s most toxic non radioactive chemical is toxic.

    I mean putting in arsenic antimony and phosphorus would be less traumatic for our infants than mercury.

    And if you look at mattresses thes are three elements that aren’t in mattresses anymore but they wer in the WTC and caused it to burn at much higher temperatures (enough to melt steel) than otherwise. We can predict almost to a degree even.

    Chemistry is an exact science or certainly more exact than biology where 99 escape and just one pays the piper.

    There is as you say not just the mercury but a 1001 problems with vaccines and their use, but I believe one small step for me at a time.

    Power to the elbow of those who pinpoint other problems.

    I want mercury in vaccines banned world wide NOTHING LESS and NOTHING MORE.

    John Fryer

  • Cliff
    Nov 5, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    I meant logically, in terms of all doses. I.E why this would be a necessary truth as per the statement.

    Cliff

  • notmercury
    Nov 5, 2007 at 10:48 pm

    Carbon monoxide is an endogenous neurotransmitter. So is hydrogen sulfide. Dose makes the poison, John.

    No one is disputing that mercury or thimerosal are toxic. Does thimerosal cause any harm or contribute to autism at the levels formerly present in US vaccines? Apparently not.

    We know in fact that thimerosal is driven into the brain at a rate 5 times that of its close cousin which is present as an impurity in significant amount in any case as an impurity. There it becomes inorganic mercuy (11) in the form of the brain destroying experiment.

    Source please? Burbacher? I better read it again, if that’s the case.

    Mercury is the most toxic non radioactive metal.

    It is catalytic which means a little goes a long way until it itself is poisoned!

    Mercury can be a catalyst, under the right conditions, bound to thiolates in the human body? Unlikely, but what reactions are being catalyzed that cause a person to be autistic?

    I want mercury in vaccines banned world wide NOTHING LESS and NOTHING MORE.

    Good for you. Good luck on your campaign. Try not to use autism as a scare tactic though. It hurts autistic people.

  • John Fryer
    Nov 6, 2007 at 11:57 am

    To Not mercury
    I am not aware I am using scare tactics?
    If you force people to have mercury injections and then when two such people inncolated at the same time die at the same time and you say coincidence and go on for another 20 years doing the same thing and watching a 100 000 children die - now that’s what I call scary.
    I don’t know if mercury is a factor in autism - my beef is denying vaccines kill to the extent that Sally Clark gets life in prison when her son dies after 6 hours when the only risk factor was a mercury vaccine.
    This 11 years after the first incident and coincidentally having the same surname to indicate its not a rare event.
    2007 Korea stops Hep B vaccines. These are mercury vaccines and I know one Korean baby now dead whose head blew up more than 90 per cent after just such a vaccine last year. Now that’s kind of scary too.
    The parents; well watch this space they have been separated from their other children and may go to prison for the harm of mercury vaccines.
    And yes, thanks for your best wishes.
    I DO want mercury banned from ALL VACCINES nothing less and nothing more.

  • John Fryer
    Nov 6, 2007 at 12:12 pm

    Hi Again Not Mercury
    Exo comes from outside so presumably you mean exo and not endo?
    No matter. Burbacher - well you are well informed obviously, so why Not Mercury? Are you politically or economically involved in damage limitation?
    Dose is in the Poison comes from an astrologer who lived 500 years ago. He may also have been the best toxicologist then and probably better than most if not all today.
    But times move on and so does science if astrology ever was a science?
    There is no lower limit to mercury and its toxicity WHO 2007.
    The evidence sadly comes from the SIDS deaths that cannot be blamed on other toxic exposures say plutonium or VX or the like.
    We live in a toxic world but putting mercury in vaccines - shame on them.
    And they still do - Now that’s attempted murder in my book.
    All I want is a ban on mercury in vaccines nothing less and nothing more.

  • Cliff
    Nov 6, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    Thank you for answering some of the questions I posed, though I want to redirect to some of my other questions and will ask a few follow ups.

    I know your general opinion on amalgams, but how much do you think the toxicity is clear, given it’s part of a compound and the levels are low?

    Logically, how is it clear inherently that mercury is at all levels toxic as posed? I’ll admit, I can’t make that work, though remember I’m talking in terms of strict logic on that question, not on data.

    But on the levels, thanks for a clear answer. However, I had issues backing it up, searched the WHO site for a significant period of time. I found a few relevant points. One was a FAO/WHO Codex Alimentarius guideline level of 1 mg/kg as toxic (found in a review of mercury levels in Fijian seafoods), which I compared against the FDA numbers implicating a less than toxic amount in vaccines, but that was cited as of 06. The other was a WHO site saying themerisol wasn’t toxic. Where, specifically, is this statistic on mercury? And the evidence comes from SIDS deaths that they couldn’t understand? Could you explain that thinking?

    And what exactly do you do for a living? In other words, what does an advanced analytical chemist do for a living?

    Do you have the LD numbers for themerisol as normally found in vaccines or some similar approximation, and where? I’d like to know that info.

    I don’t doubt that mercury is toxic, but even things you’ve cited (let’s say lead) have toxicity levels (10 μg/dL, to quote the CDC). So I’d like some more confirmation from an expert.

    Cliff

  • Beau Geste
    Nov 6, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    And also tell us how you feel about fluorine.

  • Chuck
    Nov 6, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    Fluorine shouldn’t be added as an ingredient to vaccines. It isn’t a very hard question to answer.

  • Cliff
    Nov 6, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    And yet is used in dentistry products, so the argument is not so easy to dismiss.

    Cliff

  • Beau Geste
    Nov 6, 2007 at 5:06 pm

    That’s my point. Fluorine is toxic, yet we use it in toothpaste. Nobody has proven fluorine is safe to use in toothpaste. All we can say is there is no evidence of harm, and no known mechanism by which fluorine, when used in toothpaste, could be harmful.

  • Chuck
    Nov 6, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    Cliff

    Fluoride is a compound of Fluorine, Fluorine is highly toxic and corrosive.

  • Kristina Chew, PhD
    Nov 6, 2007 at 6:04 pm

    What isn’t toxic, it might be wondered.

  • Cliff
    Nov 6, 2007 at 6:05 pm

    And themerisol is a compound as well.

    Cliff

  • Chuck
    Nov 6, 2007 at 7:07 pm

    Thimerosal is in vaccines, is fluoride? Is fluoride classified as a neurotoxin and if so at what amounts?

  • Cliff
    Nov 6, 2007 at 7:26 pm

    Fluoride is a .1-.3 mg/kg toxicity level. It’s not in vaccines, but it is in dental products, as you know, but not in levels that make it anywhere near dangerous.

    Cliff

  • Beau Geste
    Nov 6, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    So an element can be dangerous at one level, but not at another? Or is that just true for fluorine?

  • Regan
    Nov 6, 2007 at 7:38 pm

    About Fluorine, and fluorine compounds
    “…fluorine does not occur free in nature and was extremely difficult for scientists to isolate…Sodium fluoride (NaF), stannous(II) fluoride (SnF2) and sodium monofluorophosphate (Na2PO3F) are all fluorine compounds added to toothpaste, also to help prevent tooth decay.”

    http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele009.html

    For something similar, see chlorine (g) and chlorine compounds (NaCl, for example).

  • notmercury
    Nov 7, 2007 at 12:29 am

    I meant endogenous.

  • John Fryer
    Nov 7, 2007 at 6:45 am

    To Cliff

    What do I do ? I am now retired.
    I was a science teacher.
    Mercury or thimerosal or thimerosal with significant amounts of methyl mercury impurity is not present in small amounts.
    If you look at PPM or PPB or levels of reference for toxic waste or polluted drinking water or levels at which it destroys our cells then thimerosal is way over the limit.
    Everybody here and elsewhere is discussing the link to autism. The most important link is to SIDS.
    Why did UK have nearly 2 000 SIDS every year? And why in the USA was it 8 000 (an estimate) every year?
    The official answer is we don’t know. But we do know that mercury is toxic. We do know that it is synergistic with other toxins.
    At this point we need on a precautionary principle to say it is responsible for those SIDS.
    It may only be directly responsible for a fraction of these but we have the right to good science and not the paid writings of those who not only know better but refuse to discuss why they use 500 year old writings of an astrologer and deny science of 100 years ago through to the present day which tells us not that mercury in vaccines not only causes SIDS but why hasn’t it taken out millions more children? One in Six or Twenty Four illnesses a year is no problem to the doctors.
    The reason we don’t admit the harm is that the harm is too big to admit too.
    So where do we go now?
    I think we will follow the Romans.
    All paths lead to Rome.
    But the path of illness leads to Trillions for Big Pharma.
    If they relied on me they would be have been bankrupt Sixty years ago.
    All I want is a total ban on mercury in vaccines – NOTHING LESS and NOTHING MORE.
    Fluorine is toxic and is in industrial waste – so what do you do with it? Pay billions to dispose of it properly? Or make money poisoning the world?

  • Cliff
    Nov 7, 2007 at 8:52 am

    Thank you for answering my questions, and I’ll consider the answers given time.

    Cliff

  • passionlessDrone
    Nov 7, 2007 at 9:21 am

    Hi Cliff -

    “I don’t doubt that mercury is toxic, but even things you’ve cited (let’s say lead) have toxicity levels (10 μg/dL, to quote the CDC). So I’d like some more confirmation from an expert.

    You might be interested in knowing that the CDC recently came out and acknowledged that levels of lead lower than that can have deliterious effects; especially on the young.

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071102/lead_levels_071102/20071102?hub=Health

    I’m sure we will never find the same thing about mercury though. So that’s good.

    Take care!

    - pD

  • notmercury
    Nov 7, 2007 at 9:23 am

    John Fryer said: “Everybody here and elsewhere is discussing the link to autism. The most important link is to SIDS.”

    Perhaps a quick glance at the name of this blog will shed some light on that.

    John,
    I know you are concerned with the health and safety of children everywhere but why are you concentrating on autism related blogs if you don’t think thimerosal is relevant to autism?

    You said: “No matter. Burbacher - well you are well informed obviously, so why Not Mercury? Are you politically or economically involved in damage limitation?”

    I mentioned Burbacher because it seemed like the most likely source of your “thimerosal is driven into the brain at a rate 5 times that of its close cousin” statement. If you could point me to the specific page and paragraph where that is demonstrated, I would appreciate it.

    To answer your other question, No. I am in no way politically or economically involved in “damage limitation.” I chose the pseudonym because it accurately encapsulates my position on the issue. Mercury does not cause autism, it causes mercury poisoning.

    CO and H2S are both endogenous neurotransmitters, they are generated by our own cells in extremely minute quantities. Dose does make the poison. Always and universally.

    Fluoride? Added to toothpaste because it is an essential component of tooth enamel. In many forms and concentrations it is toxic to living organisms but many organisms have evolved mechanisms to utilize the element.

    It’s pointless to compare F to Hg because mercury has no known biological function but there is no more or less of the element on Earth today than there was at any other time in history. If your goal is to eradicate it from the planet you better get busy.

  • Cliff
    Nov 7, 2007 at 10:10 am

    Interesting, and thank you, pD.

    Cliff

  • Cliff
    Nov 7, 2007 at 10:13 am

    I think the F to Hg comparison is legit in light that the dosage and concentration being important to the actual damage done. It wasn’t in any sense of function per se, though it’s not as if the themerisol was tossed in accidentally.

    Cliff

  • notmercury
    Nov 7, 2007 at 11:33 am

    Agreed Cliff.

  • John Fryer
    Nov 7, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    Hi Not Mercury

    You are coming up with important points.
    First just because an element is in our body that doesn’t mean we can add any old compound to supply that element.
    Second just because we don’t find an element doesn’t mean its not needed.
    The human race is not very intelligent and if you look at vitamins and the history of any scientific progress it comes with disbelief, to pitched argument, to common knowledge.
    Mercury is at the stage where it kills and I think it causes autism, but I am coming at this very conservatively and slowly.
    I know many people killed or nearly killed by if not mercury then mercury + other toxins.
    The evidence is not from Burbacher which you know better than me, not from Maddy Hornig but from VAERS, from legal cases, from protestations of thousands of parents who demand:
    My child was 200 per cent fit and after a vaccine they are dead. It is the vaccine and any doctor or coroner that says otherwise is mistaken.
    I have someone I know at present vaccinated with mercury, head blows up 90 per cent and now months after the child is dead.
    Not only does mercury escape justice but the family is destroyed, separated and may end up in prison.
    It only makes sense if you control the law, the police, the science.
    It is called conspiracy, propaganda, dictatorship or what you like.
    But the problem is that it selectively kills those who have the power. They lose their own children and when you point out do something they point you to the DOH vaccine site where you are told: there is no problem.
    To the DOH 2 000 dead a year with no known cause is NO PROBLEM.
    It is a problem to any one of those children, and it should be a sufficient problem to the parents especially when hauled before the due process of law for killing their children.
    Children of 2 to 6 months only die of this mysterious syndrome. But if you give the same vaccines to teenagers you get 80 per cent complaints.
    We have in the 2 to 6 months, silent suffering and possibly autism in the future.
    But lets get SIDS sorted first and maybe I will give a considered review of autis after.
    The Geier’s are doing just fine on this.
    And Don Olmsted
    And Robert Kennedy
    And all.
    So if a person dies after a vaccine something must be driven into the brain to stop it working the heart and we know this is exactly what neurotoxins do. 100 000 examples is good enough for me to say it isn’t just some anecdote, this is some catsatrophe.

  • Beau Geste
    Nov 7, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    Dan Olmsted? The former AP reporter? The guy who reported the Amish don’t vaccinate and don’t have autism?

    The guy who missed the Clinic for Special Children in the heart of Amish country?

    We can talk about the Geiers too if you like.

  • notmercury
    Nov 7, 2007 at 2:04 pm

    JF: “My child was 200 per cent fit and after a vaccine they are dead.”

    I am deeply and truly sorry for your loss. Do you suppose it is possible that your objectivity has also suffered?

    Now I’d like to ask you a question. Are you involved in vaccine litigation like the Geiers?

  • Chuck
    Nov 7, 2007 at 2:32 pm

    notmercury,

    I’m sure JF’s objectivity has suffered just as much as your has.

  • Kassiane
    Nov 7, 2007 at 2:46 pm

    Many scientists feel SIDS is tied to mitochondrial disorders, particularly Leigh’s syndrome.

    Just because blaming vaccines is easier doesn’t mean it’s correct.

  • notmercury
    Nov 7, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    Thanks Charles,
    I recognize and admit that I am not an objective observer. I am always ready to weigh new evidence and reconsider my position at any time and have done so in the past.

    I’d be open to the idea that mercury can cause autism if presented with convincing evidence to that effect. Do you know of any?

  • Chawn
    Nov 7, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    Hi. I logged onto this blog just out of curiosity. Most of what you all are saying is WAY over my head, and what I have to say may not be relevant. Regarding the vaccinations: my son, who is five now, had the chicken pox when he was just under one. Since he already had the chicken pox, he has not had the vaccinations for this. He got the chicken pox from my mother who had Shingles at the time. My mother never had the vaccines, now she gets a serious outbreak of Shingles about once every six months or so. Not only does she suffer during her outbreak, but she is also potentially contagious if someone hasn’t been vaccinated. I say all that to say, if the vaccines are the cause of Autism, then why, at age five, was my son diagnosed with Autistic Disorder? My other children had the vaccines and they are fine.

    Also, regarding Jenny McCarthy. It is encouraging that she wants to get the recognition out about Autism. What is not encouraging is having a recently diagnosed child with Autism and being misinformed.

    Thanks for listening.

  • Kristina Chew, PhD
    Nov 7, 2007 at 3:55 pm

    Chawn, thank you so much for writing about your son—-that must have been really difficult for him to have chicken pox at such a young age. My son’s grandmother also had shingles recently and, fortunately my son has had the vaccine and the chicken pox.

    Thank you for thoughtful perspective.

  • John Fryer
    Nov 8, 2007 at 6:13 am

    Hi Not Mercury

    Thanks for the sympathy but I was referring to other people not me!
    I have no problems with vaccines except when given ten at a time to people who are against vaccines and to all the US babies who get Hep B with mercury, GMO, aluminium et al at one day when the parents don’t know the normal behaviour of their child or the toxic and unknown effects of this Witches Brew.
    I am not involved personally in any legal actions but I do try to help those like Sally Clark who got life for the death of her son 6 hours after a mercury vaccine.

  • John Fryer
    Nov 8, 2007 at 6:33 am

    Hi Kristina
    It isn’t easy blaming vaccines.
    I spent 5 years working on organophosphates and their role in SIDS. During this time I laughed at everyone who said vaccines were part of the problem. For the past seven years I have realised reluctantly that they are a major part of the problem and like me everyone was asleep at the wheel.
    IF you say its not mercury then you are left with investigating everything that is in a vaccine and I mean everything.
    The worlds most toxic non radioactive element gets the blame in any sane analysis of vaccines and the known properties of mercury toxicity and SIDS et al is too close to be dismissed as chance or dismissed by bad science or corrupt science.
    You mention mitochondria - guess what affects mitochondria along with nerves, bones, blood etc. Yes its our dear friendly all reacting, catalytic mercury again.
    As to bugs - if it takes 40 years to find bugs then that puts the quality of medicine today at zero.
    So perhaps it may be bugs after all? Who Knows?

  • John Fryer
    Nov 8, 2007 at 6:43 am

    Hi Chawn
    The problem with vaccines is they take out the immune system bit by bit.
    Boys suffer worse than girls all other things being equal. This is known fact.
    So here’s a guess your autistic son will be the eldest son as the others will have had less vaccines?
    If the autism is in a girl then that’s bad luck as they tend to be tougher. And if the girl has autism and not your boys then you will be in the great minority and perplexity of this awful epidemic.
    Sadly in this business girls are much better than boys at resisting neurotoxins.
    Nearly all my studies have been with boys and if there is a girl usually there are several boys also affected.
    So tell me I am wrong and you will have destroyed one of my theories!
    There are problems that affect girls but my hypothesis would be the boys never made it to life. This can happen with thalidomide where sometimes twins would arrive with a damaged girl and an afterbirth that should have been a boy. Gruesome but also fact.

  • Regan
    Nov 8, 2007 at 6:44 am

    I’m somewhat confused.
    The rate of SIDS has been decreasing during the period when the number of immunizations has been increasing, even in the period prior to the reduction of thiomersal in vaccines.
    Article: SIDS decreasing–interesting for graph of rate of SIDS 1983-1995.
    http://www.aafp.org/afp/980401ap/carroll.html

    SIDS Rate and Sleep Position, 1985-2000
    (Deaths per 1,000 Live Births)
    Sleep Position Source: NICHD Household Survey
    SIDS Rate Source: National Center for Health Statistics, CDC
    http://www.sidsillinois.org/images/reading_material/sleep_position.pdf
    I realize that SIDS is a difficult call because it should be a diagnosis of exclusion–(for instance, Harry Clark appears to have died of a lethal staphylococcus infection that was missed, according to post-mortem reports), but on a visual inspection it appears that SIDS and vaccines are inversely correlated. What is the data demonstrating causation?

  • John Fryer
    Nov 8, 2007 at 7:14 am

    To Cliff

    I can remember when 1PPM was safe for fluorine. I haven’t checked out your 0.1PPM is toxic but it just goes to show the harder you look at toxic chemicals the worse they are.
    When Magos and Clements write papers on how safe mercury is you begin to doubt your own sanity.
    Toxic levels get stricter not less strict.
    Mercury in the environment is virtually taboo at any level even 0.002 PPM so why do authors defend 100 PPM thimerosal?
    Its not bad or corrupt its just plain CRIMINAL.
    Are we saying mercury is not the most toxic non radioactive element? If so chemical science is becoming astrology or alchemy perhaps?
    John Fryer MSc BSc Advanced Analytical Chemist

  • julie
    Nov 8, 2007 at 9:13 am

    And if the girl has autism and not your boys then you will be in the great minority and perplexity of this awful epidemic.

    I am part of that group. We have two boys and one girl and she is in the middle so I can not even say that she recieved vaccines before the boys so they were more toxic. I do not believe that vaccines caused her autism. I look back and see signs of it from birth. I also look at her aunts uncles cousins parents and grandparents and see traits that she has that she got from all of us. I agree that mercury should not be in vaccines. I do not think that we should be giving our children any dose of a neurotoxin, but when you mention it on an autism blog it will ruffle feathers. People will assume that you think it is the cause of autism and that you are anti vaccine. My children did not recieve the standard schedule of vaccines. They never got more than one at atime and there were certain vaccines that they did not recieve until they were older or not at all. My doctors looked at each individual child and our family history. We have a lot of family members who have had reactions to certain vaccines and those we stayed away from and were more cautious about giving. My doctors have always been willing to work with me and I never felt pressured to do things differently. That said my daughter has had many x-rays as well because of pnemonia. I do not think that it is wise to expose her to radiation but I would not have thought to say to the hospital no you can not take the x-ray because it could harm her. Sometimes we have to weigh the risks with the benefits and make the best decision that we can at the time.

  • Chawn
    Nov 8, 2007 at 9:40 am

    John -

    I have two girls and my son. My son is the youngest. I appreciate your feedback and explanations.

  • Kassiane
    Nov 8, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    Do your children like being called toxic? Cuz I’m a small woman who looks half her age and I scared the living daylights out of the last person who called ME a “toxic wastedump”.

    Who’s lacking empathy again?

  • Beau Geste
    Nov 8, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    I remember reading many years ago that some researchers thought SIDS was caused by a build up of CO2 in front of the babies face, which is more likely to happen if a baby sleeps on its stomach. A normal baby’s brain detects a CO2 build up, and then signals the muscles to change position, or to exhale more forcefully, to “freshen” the air. Has anybody heard this one?

  • Take Your Own Sweet Time
    Nov 9, 2007 at 8:31 am

    […] Jenny McCarthy is quoted in the November 9th Atlanta […]

  • John Fryer
    Nov 11, 2007 at 5:45 pm

    Beau Geste
    It isn’t likely that carbon dioxide would kill a child easily. This gas is and has been part of our history and so the body will have a good response as you suggest. The problem with lying face down in a cot with perfect seals is a little frightening and there should be ways for gases to descend and not build up if they are heavy.
    The problem was due to organophosphates as a flame retardant outgassing but all mattresses have for decades been made from phosphorus free materials.

  • John Fryer
    Nov 11, 2007 at 5:59 pm

    To Julie

    Your case is fascinating to me. You have a girl with autism but boys that are fine. This does not help my theory one bit and I would be interested in finding out more. X rays are to be avoided but are not likely to lead to autism in any event.
    The clue is that you know your family reacts to vaccines. You say one vaccine at a time which is good.
    The second most important factor is weight as a heavier person is usually able to withstand vaccines more easily.
    I am pro vaccine but how many illnesses do we really need to protect ourselves from?
    And why is the oldest and the one which kills more than all the others left out? Ie. tuberculosis vaccines.
    Its not good to get pneumonia either.
    As a scientist the only thing I can say is everything has an explanation but from the little you tell us it is impossible to say why or where she got her conditions from.
    Pasteur overturned the spontaneous idea of life or illness and this applies to chemical illness as well as his microbial illnesses.
    Some problems arise in rhesus negative families but it is not clear if you are rhesus negative.

  • John Fryer
    Nov 11, 2007 at 6:17 pm

    To Chuck
    If we only left most vaccines until our children could talk we would have most of the answers to why we have autism off scale..
    Chemicals are not easy to test certainly if you don’t bother to test for them for sure.
    When I was exposed to hydrogen sulphide toxicity you could detect 1 PPM instantly with your nose and more easily even then a test paper. To measure the exact level with a machine would be even more difficult.
    When you have 100 PPM of the world’s most toxic non radioactive element in your vaccines, any chemist would ask what the XXXX is going on.
    Unless that is he is getting paid in gold bars to say its no problem.
    There are ways weeks or months after that we can measure mercury body burden when it has been removed from our blood stream in a matter of a day or so.
    But your bit about an autopsy sounds good. Why don’t we do it for SIDS vicitmes then? Why do we test for every toxin that isn’t there and leave out the tests for toxins we know are there?
    The last time someone looked they didn’t find 100PPM; it had bioaccumulated in the body of the dead athlete (Sudden Adult Death) to more than 1 000 PPM of mercury. But then you have to admit death was from toxic mercury poisoning and nothing yet nothing has more mercury in it than vaccines.

  • julie
    Nov 12, 2007 at 10:30 am

    I am not a scientist so some of what you said was alittle over my head. I did not mean that the x-rays or pnemonia were what caused her autism. I was saying that She has auism but also other heather issues that have nothing to do with the autism. I believe that her autism is genetic. I know there may not be concrete proof of this but a lot of traits in less severity you can see in our family. As far as her wieght as a newborn she was only 5 pounds 6 ounces but quickly caught up and is now the largest of our children for her age. She is 2 years younger than her brother but only 2 inches and 5 pounds smaller. Her brothers immune system is the only one that has been compromised as a baby that we know of. He was born with spinal menegitis and recieved two weeks of iv antibiotic treatments and were told it could take up to two years for his system to catch up to normal. He is and always has been our healthiest child. I am no sure that there is a cause other than that is how she was made.

  • The Tide is High: Jenny McCarthy Riding on a Wave of Autism Awareness
    Nov 28, 2007 at 1:52 am

    […] you go by what various media stories are saying, we’re lucky to be living in the era of the New McCarthyism aka “bimbo science.”But I have to wonder if McCarthy’s rise as the very model of […]

  • Martha Gray
    Feb 3, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    Ms. Chew,
    For someone who claims to know what she is talking about, I didn’t read very far before I came across your clearly misinformed opinion that because Ms. McCarthy’s son Evan was born in 2002, he could not possibly have received mercury-laden vaccinations. Mercury was taken out of the manufacturing process for most childhood vaccines in 2001 (although not out of all of them) and, more importantly, existing stocks with a several-year shelf-life were never recalled. Plenty of children received many vaccinations with vaaccines containing mercury after 2001. Therefore, having read this in your diatribe, I saw no reason to bother reading any further. You may also remember that McCarthy (like the AAP and the CDC) was lauded as a hero for quite some time before being exposed as a fraud which, I think, is what will ultimately happen to the medical establishment in this debate.

  • Kristina Chew, PhD
    Feb 3, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    “You may also remember that McCarthy (like the AAP and the CDC) was lauded as a hero for quite some time before being exposed as a fraud which, I think, is what will ultimately happen to the medical establishment in this debate.”

    Indeed, yes—- Jenny McCarthy has quite exposed herself already.

  • Myth, Science, and Autism: A Message from the AAP
    Feb 18, 2008 at 2:27 am

    […] their views, which they make known via full-page ads in national newspapers; celebrities such as Jenny McCarthy; and press releases issued post-haste by “mercury causes autism” organization such as […]

  • Biomed, Anecdotal Evidence, and Thoughtful House
    May 4, 2008 at 4:13 pm

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  • Tony Bateson
    May 19, 2008 at 7:00 am

    Six years after approaching the Geier father and son epidemiologists in November 2002 at a vaccine conference in Washington where I told them of my inability to find unvaccinated autistic individuals in the UK population I have to report that the position remains exactly the same.

    I have just had an article published in the UK Autism File elaborating on my quest to find these people. Unfortunately they do not seem to exist even though the UK has up to 20% of children not being vaccinated with childhood vaccines.

    My estimate is that there are about three million people in the UK who have never had childhood vaccines. It’s arithmetic, not science, if there are no unvaccinated autistic people here it can mean only one thing! Scientists have trampled all over the wood and the trees, give me an answer to the number puzzle please.

    Tony Bateson

  • ANB
    May 19, 2008 at 8:05 am

    …if there are no unvaccinated autistic people here it can mean only one thing!

    And that one thing is?

  • John Fryer
    May 19, 2008 at 9:07 am

    to ANB (or anybody)

    Never heard of Mr Bateson or you except the former seems to be traceable as a person with sound views and you are just 3 letters and could be anybody.

    …if there are no unvaccinated autistic people here it can mean only one thing!

    And that one thing is?

    That one thing is: vaccines can cause autism

    Its not really that difficult to work out is it?

    But impossible for ANY nation including the greatest nation in the world to face up to this truth and pay out for the deliberate harm it has caused to millions of permanently injured and dead children.

    Not forgetting the families who are often themselves accused of the harm caused by the vaccines.

    John Fryer MSc BSc Chemist and mercury in vaccines researcher

  • John Fryer
    May 19, 2008 at 9:30 am

    Rather old but beau geste mentioned CO2 as a possible cause and yes CO2 can asphyxiate as is well known when children played with plastic bags when they didnt put holes in them.

    In fact it is not certain there is an obvious response to too much CO2 other than proper care.

    Stories difficult to confirm indicate unconsciousness comes suddenly when CO2 levels are high with possibly just a split seconds warning of doom.

    If beau geste is seriously thinking of CO2 as a cause then other toxic gases et al would have millions of times higher risk factors so I find it bizarre that a common substance harmless at 100 times the normal level should be considered seriously and rightly so but a substance like mercury lethal at 100 times less than in our vaccines can be dismissed by the same serious person.

  • John Fryer
    May 19, 2008 at 9:37 am

    The group should investigate both the USA Vaccine Injury Board and the National Institute for Health who for years have accepted 99 per cent of the claims for vaccine injury are false and denied any harm from mercury in vaccines respectively.
    Today, we see specimen folk from these organisations; ie people who look at the claims or old directors of NIH and they are saying in a loud and clear voice:

    Look again at the vaccine and autism link.

    WHY?

  • Kristina Chew, PhD
    May 19, 2008 at 9:52 am

    @Tony Bateson,

    Is your article available online? Am curious about it and also on the sources for estimates of unvaccinated persons in the UK.

  • Emily
    May 19, 2008 at 10:33 am

    Looks like the bats have left the belfry.

  • John Fryer
    May 19,