The Parental Right to Choose to Vaccinate, Or Not
Pathophilia succinctly describes the CDC’s MMWR report and takes a closer look at the 131 cases of measles reported from January-July of this year. Writes Pathophilia:
The overwhelming majority of these cases were imported* (13%) or linked to imported disease (76%). (It is important to note that the number of imported measles cases in the United States has not changed appreciably over the years, but that the number of importation-associated cases accounts for this year’s dubious record.) A large percentage (81%) of measles cases were related to 7 outbreaks (≥3 cases). Fifteen individuals, including 4 children younger than 15 months, were hospitalized for disease; however, there have been no deaths—yet.
Most important, however, is the fact that a whopping 91% of cases occurred in individuals who had not received vaccination or whose vaccination status was unknown. Among these 112 patients, 85% were eligible to receive vaccination, but 66% had declined because of “philosophical or religious beliefs.”
*Genetically or epidemiologically linked to cases in Italy, Switzerland, Belgium, India, Israel, China, German, Pakistan, the Philippines, and Russia.
As an editorial noted in the CDC’s MMWR report states, the number of unvaccinated individuals has risen high enough in some communities that herd immunity has been compromised:
In the United States, measles caused 450 reported deaths and 4,000 cases of encephalitis annually before measles vaccine became available in the mid-1960s (1). Through a successful measles vaccination program, the United States eliminated endemic measles transmission (1). Sustaining elimination requires maintaining high MMR vaccine coverage rates, particularly among preschool (>90% 1-dose coverage) and school-aged children (>95% 2-dose coverage) (7). High coverage levels provide herd immunity, decreasing everyone’s risk for measles exposure and affording protection to persons who cannot be vaccinated. However, herd immunity does not provide 100% protection, especially in communities with large numbers of unvaccinated persons. For the foreseeable future, measles importations into the United States will continue to occur because measles is still common in Europe and other regions of the world. Within the United States, the current national MMR vaccine coverage rate is adequate to prevent the sustained spread of measles. However, importations of measles likely will continue to cause outbreaks in communities that have sizeable clusters of unvaccinated persons.
A story from MSNBC provides some details about the attitudes of parents who’ve chosen not to vaccinate their children for their “philosophical or religious beliefs.” To some, there’s a genuine belief that there is simply something morally wrong about having to vaccinate their children; about having their children’s and their own rights as individuals trampled upon. Parents, and mothers in particular, feel that it’s their moral obligation as parents today to “do their research” and to stand up to and to question the authority that says what seems tantamount to an order of “thou shalt vaccinate.” Call it an after-effect of feminism and women’s rights if you will; women and mothers in particular have taken on the task of questioning the expert, which often means the (male) medical professional. Here’s what Jennifer Margulis, an Oregon mother who’s chosen not to vaccinate her three children Hesperus, 9, Athena, 7, and Etani, 4, says in the MSNBC story (I’ve inserted some comments in italics):
“I think doctors [i.e., those authority figures] tend to be taken back by how much I know,” she said, adding later: “I’m a public health official’s nightmare, not because I’m not responsible, but because I’m too responsible.” [not only is this mother more and potentially the most knowledgeable, but she is more and “too” responsible]
Margulis said she worked hard to boost her children’s own resistance to disease. She nursed two of her kids past the age of 4 and said she makes sure they eat healthful foods and get regular exercise. She believes her children’s systems are strong enough to tolerate disease — and even hopes that they’ll get the chance to gain natural immunity.
“I would love for my children to have measles,” Margulis said. “Please get me chicken pox and get me measles.”
She rejects the idea that her decision endangers others.
“People say, ‘You’re putting my kid at risk, but that doesn’t make any sense at all,’” she said. “If the vaccine works, I’m just putting my child at risk.”
Emily has already blogged about Margulis’ words. I also make sure that Charlie eats “healthful foods” and gets “regular exercise” though (confession) I stopped nursing him at 13 months. Charlie has had all his vaccinations and the chicken pox vaccine proved, in his case, to make a difference. When the chicken pox was going around at his school, Charlie got a very, very mild case. He was 4 1/2 at the time and there would have been no way to prevent him from scratching and scratching himself if he had had case of chicken pox as bad as I did when I was a child (it was bad).
Margulis’ remarks reflect what I think of as an “Our Children Ourselves” perspective, as I wrote in a post, A Personal Matter:
“Exempters” frequently refer to their need—their right—to make medical decisions for their children and themselves, based on their own research and often in opposition to the recommendations of doctors and other health professionals. That is, the reason often cited for not vaccinating a child is that an individual has the right to choose what to do; the advice and judgments of medical professionals are often regarded with suspicion. It was back in 1970 that the Boston Women’s Health Collective published a book called Our Bodies, Ourselves; the book helped to launch the women’s health movement and women—mothers—long used to trusting whatever doctors told them, started to ask questions and look for their own answers. Part of being a “good mother”—-a “good parent”—today is to show that you’ve done your research and are willing to take a stand on issues that directly touch you. And what can mean more than the health of your own child?
……
…discussions about a vaccine-autism link can quickly become as passionate and incendiary as any about abortion (and note how the notion of the “right to choose” what is best for the health of one’s own child is reminiscent of the notion of a “woman’s right to choose”).One basic tenet of Our Bodies, Ourselves is this: Who knows one’s own body better than oneself?. Extend this notion to one’s family and to one’s own children: Who but a parent knows their own children best? I suspect that these notions are one reason that discussions about vaccines and autism become as emotionally charged, as fervent, as discussions about religion and, indeed abortion. Put it another way: When the subject is vaccines and autism, the personal and the political, and the scientific are fused, combined, and often just confused.
Studies have shown and continue to show that there’s no link between vaccines and autism. But science isn’t the arbiter for those who choose not to vaccinate; the reasons for such a choice lie rather in personal beliefs and convictions. All the scientific studies in the world could be done and explained till the cows come home and (one starts to suspect), suspicion of vaccines and refusal to vaccinate will continue. If it’s due to fear of autism today, tomorrow it could be fear of something else. Parents truly want to know that they are not only doing the right thing by their children, but the best thing, and vaccination has become the bad guy in the perfect picture parents want to make their children’s lives to be. Not wanting to let “external authorities” tell them what to do about their children’s health, some seek to be as much in control (they think) about their children as they can, thumbing their nose at the “medical establishment.”
And who knows but maybe this wish to be in control of their children’s well-being is behind the self-righteous statements (Margulis: “I’m a public health official’s nightmare, not because I’m not responsible, but because I’m too responsible”); behind the defiance; behind the image of the protective mama bear who’ll slash her claws at you if you get too close to her cubs. I take on such a stance myself more than frequently when I walk out into the world with Charlie, tall and muscled, very tanned after two weeks at the beach, and disabled; I often feel it’s just my body standing between him and hostility and ignorance, and I’ve no choice but to shield him.
But I also know, from walking in the world with Charlie, that there’s really very little I can control. I’ve done a lot, given up a lot, changed a lot, made decisions I’ve surprised myself about, and still it sometimes seems things spin out in directions I neither foresaw nor at all care for. But that’s the strange power, and weakness, of parenting: You make decisions out of “your child’s best interests” and out of love, and sometimes the heart clouds things up. Parents know a lot, and also need to know when they need to listen.
Tags: asd, asperger, autism, autism blog, disabilities blog, disability, green, Health, immunization, measles, mercury, mmr, motherhood, Myth, natural, Parenting, pdd-nos, Science, shots, VaccinesRelated Stories
POSTED IN: Health, Parenting, Philosophy, Religion, Vaccines
42 opinions for The Parental Right to Choose to Vaccinate, Or Not
Laura
Aug 23, 2008 at 7:38 am
This was good food for thought for me for a number of reasons…
I am FOR the life of a child and FOR their rights being protected and I believe that life starts at conception. This means, that I am against abortion at any stage and especially against the idea of prenatal testing and abortion based on predicted diagnosis (that are inaccurate on many occasions and levels - not all babies with these diagnoses are born with the sicknesses they predict and no babies born with developmental delay deserve death).
I am also very concerned about vaccinations based on our experience with our daughter. I’m not worried about whether or not it caused her autism, but I am very concerned by the extreme reaction (hospitalization) she has with them and the blind push to continue to go for more, no matter the cost to her.
However, this post made me stop and think about our rights as Americans and at what point those rights should be waived if they intrude upon the rights of others (which is why in my opinion, a woman’s right to choose does not trump a baby’s right to live and which is why this whole abortion conversation gets tricky if you’re talking about a woman’s risk of death in pregnancy and whose rights then trump whose).
Should my right to protect my child from vaccine reactions and their unknown long term effects trump the rights of other children to be protected by herd immunity? I don’t know. I am continuing to look at the issue from all sides to make a responsible choice.
I worry if the government starts mandating vaccines on such an extreme level (is the Hep B vaccine really necessary at birth when born to a mother without Hep B? Shouldn’t we all be very concerned by the reports of severe adverse side effects to the HPV vaccines?). Should fear of disease be what drives us to take away our individual rights?
If the government succeeds in using fear of disease as a basis for mandating health decisions parents and individual adults make, what is to keep them from mandating prenatal screening and mandatory abortion based on predicted disease or disability. We’ve all heard the statistics already about the number of down syndrome babies that are aborted. This environment of fear is costing us, costing our babies and at what price and to what extent will we lose our freedoms because of it?
All stuff I’m thinking about today and I appreciate your thoughts here as well Kristina.
Jen
Aug 23, 2008 at 7:49 am
“People say, ‘You’re putting my kid at risk, but that doesn’t make any sense at all,’” she said. “If the vaccine works, I’m just putting my child at risk.”
I’m almost at the point now where I’m ready to say that people’s right to choose for their kids ends at my right to protect my own kids.
Unfortunately we’ve had measles in our town for almost 6 months now, and since I’m vaccine resistant, it’s not pleasant. Theoretically I’m not supposed to be going anywhere crowded (like the grocery store or swimming pool), as measles are still spreading, which, needless to say, would interfere greatly with my ability to parent my own children. I’m not sure why my health, or my kids’ ability to have a mother (worst-case scenario), should be compromised by people who can’t be bothered to actually understand what it is they’re objecting to.
I’m sure that those people do think that they are doing the right thing for their children, but we see examples every day of people whose judgment is just off-kilter. While I may empathize with their passion, my tolerance for their idiocy is getting a bit thin at the moment.
Club 166
Aug 23, 2008 at 8:31 am
I fully support people NOT being forced to get routine vaccines.
A also support quarantining all those who don’t get vaccinated for “philosophical” reasons any time there is a public health threat.
Joe
Cyndy Aleo-Carreira
Aug 23, 2008 at 9:59 am
Every time I see a blog post about vaccines, my hackles rise. Yes, my kids have had horrible reactions, but they are still vaccinated. There is a middle ground between the overly aggressive CDC schedule and the “ZOMG the gubmint is trampling on mah ritz!” garbage. That mother OBVIOUSLY isn’t over-educated because she doesn’t even understand HOW vaccines work, nor why they give boosters. Each of my children has gotten the MMR. Alone, not clumped with 45 other CDC-recommended vaccines at the same time. Each has had a reaction. One actually got a mild case of the measles. And then when kindergarten rolls around and the state tells me they can’t go to school, I have them titred. If we moved to a less aggressive schedule (my kids are always done by school age and yet don’t follow the CDC schedule), and did a titre before school rather than incessant boosters which benefit the pharmaceutical companies more than the public health, we would catch those few kids who ARE vaccine resistant or would benefit from a booster and a lot of this constant argument would simply vanish.
Terri
Aug 23, 2008 at 10:08 am
Mothers want to feel empowered and to know that they are being listened to. If the medical profession could get away from an “our way or the highway” approach to vaccination and offer more options on scheduling and makeup of vaccines — choices that can be offered without endangering public health — I think a lot of the vaccination resistance would go away.
I long ago learned with my kids that it’s better to offer two acceptable choices than to insist on one way (to which “no” is the default option). Tends to work with adults, too.
Bonnie
Aug 23, 2008 at 11:31 am
I still have mixed about the whole vaccination thing. Casey got some when he was a baby and toddler, and then once I found about a possible connection, I stopped. I have signed the mysterious waivers that no one knows of, I’ve been defensive with various pediatricians when they tell me I need to update his shots, etc. All the while, I still have a bit of doubt in my mind that I am doing the right thing. I personally only had shots as a baby and nothing else. My mom wasn’t being politically correct or radical, she just didn’t want me to cry. Think what you will, but she was just going to the core of motherliness with that one. Anyway, I’ve never (knock on wood) had any sort of disease so I’ve been lucky.
I probably won’t give Casey any more shots ever. I don’t know what caused his autism, probably not shots, but it just makes me feel better to not. Maybe I’m being like my mom…shame on me I guess.
Bonnie
Aug 23, 2008 at 11:31 am
I still have mixed about the whole vaccination thing. Casey got some when he was a baby and toddler, and then once I found about a possible connection, I stopped. I have signed the mysterious waivers that no one knows of, I’ve been defensive with various pediatricians when they tell me I need to update his shots, etc. All the while, I still have a bit of doubt in my mind that I am doing the right thing. I personally only had shots as a baby and nothing else. My mom wasn’t being politically correct or radical, she just didn’t want me to cry. Think what you will, but she was just going to the core of motherliness with that one. Anyway, I’ve never (knock on wood) had any sort of disease so I’ve been lucky.
I probably won’t give Casey any more shots ever. I don’t know what caused his autism, probably not shots, but it just makes me feel better to not. Maybe I’m being like my mom…shame on me I guess.
Katie
Aug 23, 2008 at 12:05 pm
I think our right not to vaccinate should be protected. My son has multiple delays as well as hypotonia and supposed PDD-NOS. I speculate that he as well as my other son most likely do have an underlying disorder and I could never justify getting them their vaccinations b/c the risks of seizures and life-long complications are too high for us.
I feel strongly that they benefits do not outweigh the risk for my family and I think it is VERY important for me to be given the option of protecting my children as I see fit.
Rose
Aug 23, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Ben has had all his shots, but he did have a HHE(Hypotonic-Hyporesponsive Encephally) when he was 2 months old within an hour of leaving the health office for his DTP. I wasn’t aware it should have been documented, It just scared the stuffing out of me. I didn’t take him to the hospital. I’ve always kind of regretted that.
Ben’s Pediatrician said it was probably a response to the pertussis, which is fairly common, when I was going all mental about him getting a tetnus (sp?) shot later on. It also may have been an indicator of Tuberous Sclerosis, which is when it is usually diagnosed (ie, response to DTP) but at his age now, we can’t afford the genetic testing to find out if he has it…it’s an inherited disease, and if he has it, I imagine it’s a minor case as it goes, but it is still something we have to keep in mind.
TS is one of the genetic causes of autism. Might not be too different from the “mito” response. He never did have any other reaction than soreness after that, not even fever.
I never knew anything about the vaccination program until he was seven years old, 4 years too late to “sue”; really 7 years too late since I didn’t take him to the hospital.
Since this is my story, I don’t have much of an opinion either way…I think herd immunity is important, but I also believe individual differences can lead to problems.
Kristina, your posts are always so timely, and lead to an airing out of ideas.
JMH
Aug 23, 2008 at 2:57 pm
If the government and the insurance companies are forced to start taking care of the kids who are being damaged by the CDC’s vacine program, I assure you the vacine program will be reformed.
Dan Burton has sponsored bill HR6391 which provides awareness campaigns to make parents aware of their right to sue under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, i.e., the federal “vaccine court,” and increase the statute of limitations from 3 years to 6 years.
If you have time to blog on this list, you have the time to contact your congressman by email and let him know you want him to co-sponsor this bill.
Don’t sit around while our kids are getting kick around by a system that views them only as a statistic. Get LOUD!! and start yelling directly into the ears of your federal, state and local representatives.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Aug 23, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Thanks for these responses–this topic brings up a lot of concerns about what it means to be a parent today.
And what if,even with a changed vaccine schedule, the autism rate is the same or rises…..
Emily
Aug 23, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Parents have the right to choose whether or not to vaccinate. They can say “no” to their pediatrician. They can sign the waivers. What they don’t have a right to do is to act as though their decision is superior to that of parents who do have their children vaccinated or behave as though nonvaccination is part of some magical formula that will unequivocally protect their children or, worst of all, actually say clearly and proudly that they’re relying on the rest of us vaccinating sheep to protect *their* children while avoiding the minimal risks of vaccinations themselves. That last really really gets to me.
We’ve declined vaccines, we’ve spread out the schedule (not for the reasons most people do it), we’ve delayed vaccinations. Not once has a single of the three pediatricians we’ve had given us any crap about it. There was no one standing in the way of those decisions we made for our children.
This antivax stuff is just another way for a specific personality type to feel as though they are smarter, better, and savvier than everyone else around them (go Google U!) AND to give them the false comfort of feeling like they have control over something that is uncontrollable. Makes ‘em feel good and in control that they are stickin’ it to the Man, even if it’s just a straw man.
Joe, that is a good point about quarantines.
bj2circeleb
Aug 24, 2008 at 2:42 am
There is some evidence to say that spreading out vaccinations and delaying them can reduce the amount of side effects of the vaccines, and so this should be something that is discussed with families if they decide they do not want to have their kids vaccinated. I personally feel that if parents were given other options, which do exist but parents have to try to work it out for themselves, then maybe more of them would have their children vaccinated. Waivers and the like exist and parents are well informed of their rights in regards to this but they are given no infromation about what they can do to space out the vaccinations, delay them, etc.
In Japan I have been told that they do not have their first vaccinations until they are about 2 years of age. They have more than 99% of children vaccinated, and almost zero reactions. They however like all countries, even those that have almost non existent vaccinations are still showing increasing levels of autism.
I do not believe that vaccinations cause Autism or any other developmental disoreder. I do however feel that their may be some risks associated with the current vaccination schedules and this really should be looked at. In particualr they do need to try to come up an alternative one that parents who are concerend about vaccines may be more willing to consider. At the moment I feel that parents are given the all or nothing approach and I do not feel that this is appropriate. Rather than doctors trying to say you must do this, they could try saying, maybe we could do it this way instead and it will create less side effects, reactions, etc and allow the child’s body to adjust to each vaccine.
I am all for people who are not vaccinated being quarantined during an outbreak.
Emily
Aug 24, 2008 at 10:23 am
bj2, nicely said. Even if spreading out the schedule is more of a pyschological crutch rather than based on science (at this point), if it means more options for worried parents and good outcomes, that’s great. And if there are findings confirming that it reduces some reactions, even better.
Chuck
Aug 24, 2008 at 10:30 am
Emily and Joe,
Why stop there with the quarantining?
Also add:
Those that spread influenza (even if vaccinated)
Those that get behind the wheel after drinking even if they are not legally drunk.
Those that smoke in public.
Those that are drunk in public
Those that spread STDs
Those that abuse children.
Inept doctors
Inept medical professionals
Those that continue to practice medicine because malpractice insurance has repeatedly covered their tail.
Politicans that deny services due to “budget constraints”
All these people are a danger to others and my children. Lock them all up together and the world would be a better place wouldn’t it.
liquid zeolite
Aug 24, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Once upon a time, we had freedoms and rights in America. That all ended when the Federal Reserve families were given control of our money (he who controls money in any house calls the shots) and then more freedoms were lost when the NeoCons took over the Repubican party.
We are now a nation of slaves. Every last one of us. Slaves. Financial slaves to the usury system. Health slaves to big pharma and the medical system. Intellectual slaves to the state sponsored propaganda machine and school systems (mass media). Try to buck any of these and you’ll be ostracized, ridiculed, and your life will be made a living hell. What happened to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? What happened to personal freedoms, being left the f-along as long as it didn’t hurt others? How can not vaccinating be seen as a threat to others if vaccines protect one from disease? Did God invent vaccines? Surely if vaccines were part of nature then God or the creator or nature would have make vaccine trees for us to feed from, right? But awww, there is the answer to this dilemma, God has given us the cure to disease! To find the answer to this riddle, just watch animals. See what they do when they get sick. They start to eat weeds, plants, roots, and sometimes starve themselves (water fast) to get well. God has given us all of the plants and foods we need to remain healthy and fight illness. The problem is that we the people like to mess with God and mother nature, and the results are inevitable. For instance, what insanity would mandate that a 1 day old baby with a compromised immune system be shot up full of toxins for the ostensible reason to protect said baby from a sexually transmitted disease? (Hepatitus). The medial establishment knows how much havoc this causes the new born baby, yet they continue to require this “shot” before the baby leaves the hospital FOR NO GOOD REASON except to harm the child so that they are more likely to become ill or suffer from some condition that will require some sort of pharma drug. (Cha ching says big pharma and Phd’s)
This whole vaccine this is a sick joke being perpetrated by some sick minds as it truly takes a sicko to hurt an innocent child. Hell holds a special place for those who knowingly hurt children, in my opinion. I myself will not be counted among them, and my children will never be vaccinated. They will eat good, natural, organic foods. They will breath clean air and drink pure water. They will exercise, read, and spend their days playing with others rather than in front of a TV. They will read and learn to read at a very early age. They will be leaders in the future and help me to spread the truth as they will not be brainwashed by this insidious system that enslaves its people.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Aug 24, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Regarding quarantining: There needs to be more discussion and consideration about the consequences of children catching diseases like measles and whooping cough. It’s one thing to state that it’s one’s “right” to “protect” one’s child, another to live with what might well happen (declining rate of children being vaccinated for measles, increasing numbers of children getting measles). Underrunning the words of those who say they’d rather have measles etc. than autism is still a lot of misunderstanding about autism—that it’s not a tragedy beyond belief and that there’s a lot that we can do.
Cyndy
Aug 24, 2008 at 1:26 pm
@liquid zeolite Since you are determined to be an all-natural, no-tv, no-vaccine, no-anything-but-what-God-put-on-this-earth zealot, maybe it’s time to get off the computer, too, no? I respect the opinions of others, but not when they are hypocrites. Even animals go extinct without any help from man or progress.
Regan
Aug 24, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Before everyone goes 3-no-trumps in coronaries about medical quarantines
A. The concept is not exactly a novel one, since that was the one way that contagious disease spread was contained earlier in the century, and
B. The practice is still used now.
I got interested in what quarantine practice is and found quite a few public health department documents describing the process of seeking out those who have come into contact with those with measles, pertussis and rubella, the program of offering, as is medically efficacious, prophylactic vaccination, and determinations of voluntary and involuntary quarantine.
So far, despite these plans, and in some cases, use, I have not observed slippery slope of the wholesale round of “undesirables”.
One problem with relying on quarantine that I see is that some diseases may be contractible before external evidence, such as rashes, emerge. Rubella, as one example, could be problematic in that way, because of the danger to pregnant women and their unborn children.
Regan
Aug 24, 2008 at 2:14 pm
In Japan I have been told that they do not have their first vaccinations until they are about 2 years of age.
Since my mother was from Japan, I had a personal interest in looking up the vaccination schedule, both as published by the Japanese government, and the World Health Organization.
Japan immunization schedule
Vaccinations specified by law:
DTaP 3, 4.5, 6, 18 months
BCG (Bacille Calmette-Guerin (tuberculosis) vaccine) 6 mos.
MR (measles & rubella) 1, 5 years;
OPV 6 months; 1 year;
JapEnc 36, 37 months; 4, 9 years
DT 11 years
Influenza >=65 years
There was a period in the past where vaccination for DPT was delayed until the age of 2, but that was revised after a widespread pertussis epidemic in Japan, and the DPT is now replaced with the DTaP.
Emily
Aug 24, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Thanks for these two good posts, Regan. And Chuck et al…people already are “quarantined” when they’re ill. Our children aren’t allowed to attend school if they have a runny nose. There’s nothing new about it. It would make sense if there’s an outbreak to keep the kids most susceptible to catching the disease home during the outbreak. That used to be what schools did with chicken pox, and when flu is rampant, schools do close down and keep the kids at home. We’re not talking about something draconian here. We’re talking about common sense.
Regarding your list, Chuck…there are already measures for people who break the law, which is much of what you describe (driving drunk, smoking in public places, public intoxication, deliberately spreading STDs, abusing children, being an inept doctor or inept medical professional). There are oversight bodies and laws designed to govern and punish these groups and precedents for some action based on these crimes. There are no such laws or oversight bodies or any other kind of limitation on disease vectors such as unvaccinated children, with the exception of carriers of some of the TB strains.
Chuck
Aug 24, 2008 at 8:26 pm
And the skin TB tests are subjective and commonly inaccurate. Even with the laws, the numbers continue to rise making those in my list more dangerous to the general public than the unvaccinated.
Emily
Aug 24, 2008 at 9:28 pm
I was actually thinking of that guy who skipped out on the quarantine and flew to Italy (?) when he was supposed to be in real, medical, solo quarantine in a hospital for TB. He had some terrible multidrug resistant strain, and I think once they finally had him in quarantine, he lost–or was going to lose–part of his lung. I’m not talking about skin TB tests.
And I’m not arguing the relative dangers of drunk drivers, smokers, and physicians guilty of inept malpractice. Since you appear at least to tacitly admit that the unvaccinated ARE a danger to the general public, you aid my point, which is that that particular danger pretty much goes completely unmonitored after the decision not to vaccinate is made. Quarantine of this group in outbreaks would help protect the public health and reduce that danger, just as taking away an inept MD’s license would.
Chuck
Aug 24, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Lasts year’s influenza was particularly nasty given that it was only 40% effective. There was never a quarantine of those that developed influenza, vaccinated or not and there are no statistics for the number of deaths in the vaccinated population. There were an estimated 36 thousand deaths last year from that vaccine preventable death. What are the US estimates for the other vaccine preventable disease for scope and comparison?
The Right to Choose, So Choose Carefully
Aug 25, 2008 at 3:01 am
[…] vaccines or something in vaccines. As noted in numerous news sources last week, it seems that many parents are opting out of vaccinating their children. The result has been hardly surprising: Measles has returned, as an […]
liquid zeolite
Aug 25, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Chuck, how are unvaccinated kids a threat to society? That is reducto ad absurdem to the nth degree! Once someone contracts a disease, if that disease is contagious and incurable, then they might be a threat, depending on how the disease is transmitted. Kids that develop contagious illnesses are usually kept home (common sense). Do you really want a nanny state that much? Watch out what you wish for, you might just get it!
Let’s not stop at diseases to quarantine. I for one think that mentally challenged people should be quarantined because their actions are unpredictable and they might cause harm to me or my children in public. I could easily make an argument that this is the case and that they should be locked up in a rubber room. Some might go further and say they should be executed or sterilized so that they can’t reproduce and that only perfect kids should be allowed to live. I foresee a future where this will be the case by the way, when the nanny state becomes a Nazi nanny state in say about 10-20 more years.
Like I said, God didn’t create a vaccine tree to eat from. We’ve brought disease upon ourselves by messing with mother nature and trying to play god. All we need for good health is to eat good, organic food, clean water, and breath clean air / exercise. How many of you parents pump your kids full of artificial flavors, hydrogenated oils, and refined flours? Thought so. Then you wonder why your kids can’t digest toxins and become autistic.
Regan
Aug 25, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Mike,
You have posted some doozies, but with that comment you have flat out won the gold medal for offensiveness and logical fallacies.
Emily
Aug 25, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Mike, you are an idiot.
liquid zeolite
Aug 25, 2008 at 6:19 pm
I get a little riled up when people suggest unvaccinated kids are some kind of pariah that should be locked up and kept from society. As God is my witness me and the millions like me that will not allow our kids to drink the Dr Jones cool-aide will not allow the masses to bully us into vaccinations.
That being said, I respect the right of all others to vaccinate their kids if that’s what they choose to do. When one loses their freedom, they tend to get a little ticked off. How can the gov force us to take something that is dangerous, unproven to be effective, and potentially lethal? They can’t. If they do, then it’s time for plan B or plan C.
bj2circeleb
Aug 26, 2008 at 1:40 am
Since when are vaccinations unproven. If they did not do anything then the government and medical professions would not be using them. They may not be perfect but it has been proven that they do save lives. If all that we need is what god gave us, then why with the increase in medical knowledge and good health care has the life expectancy of people increased to more than double of what it was a century ago. Since using all these artificial things is so bad then I question why you use a computer as it has to be one of the most evial things around. Television is at least censored to some degree, which governments are having an incredibly hard time trying to do with the internet. Sure you can find out useful information on the net, but a lot of it is absolute crap.
Measles You Can Catch (But Not Autism)
Aug 26, 2008 at 2:55 am
[…] A 7-year-old San Diego boy, who had not been vaccinated, was the first case in the current measles outbreak. He contracted the measles while traveling to […]
Kristina Chew, PhD
Aug 26, 2008 at 7:44 am
No TV in our house……
Emily
Aug 26, 2008 at 9:21 am
Oh, Mike. It’s just you against the Man, isn’t it? As long as you can try to make money by flogging your liquid do-nothing snake oil on people’s blogs, anyway. And as has been pointed out, the gov’t isn’t forcing you do to a damned thing. Get the waiver and quit whining. If there’s one cardinal feature of folks like you (I mean besides the obvious venality and self satisfaction), it’s the ability to make up conspiracies and oppression where it doesn’t exist. At least you’re using your imagination.
Regan
Aug 26, 2008 at 2:29 pm
…Like I said, God didn’t create a vaccine tree to eat from…
Also didn’t create the internet, or the keyboard. I strongly suggest that you step away from yours…stat.
Regan
Aug 28, 2008 at 3:33 am
Maybe Ms. Margulis will have the opportunity to test her immunity theories sooner than later…
“Vaccine skeptics have plenty of company in Ashland [Oregon].
There, doubts about the necessity and safety of immunizations are as much a part of the community as its embrace of naturopathic medicine, environmental ethos and counterculture roots.
The university town, and smaller enclaves of Jackson and Josephine counties, are among pockets in Oregon where parents increasingly seek waivers from some or all of the vaccinations required for schoolchildren
(…)
Jim Shames, health officer for Jackson and Josephine counties, says it’s paradoxical that many who decline or delay vaccinations for their children are in most respects community-minded, carefully choosing their diet, purchases and elected officials based on a concern for society.
These are people, Shames says, who may, for example, “want a small carbon footprint. It seems as though they see (not vaccinating) as in keeping with the rest of their lifestyle. There’s a humanitarian aspect to immunization that they’re missing.”
But Hilary Andrews, a naturopathic physician in Oregon City, says the small number of her patients concerned that vaccines might lead to autism, autoimmune diseases or allergies tend to see avoiding immunizations as altruistic.
They say “they’re not contributing to a public health epidemic of autism,”
Oregon’s low vaccination rate causes health concerns
by Paige Parker, The Oregonian August 27, 2008
Kristina Chew, PhD
Aug 28, 2008 at 7:35 am
@Regan,
“it’s paradoxical that many who decline or delay vaccinations for their children are in most respects community-minded, carefully choosing their diet, purchases and elected officials based on a concern for society”——thanks for pointing this out. I guess antivaccinationists might counter that they are going one better than most (who only think of herd immunity) as they call for “safer vaccines” etc.
The Luxury of Choice
Aug 28, 2008 at 7:01 pm
[…] 21st Southern Doctor Diaries. It’s an observation that puts recent discussions about the parental right to vaccinate or not in perspective. Dr. Parker writes about the recently reported measles outbreak—131 cases as […]
False Prophets and Failed Poets
Aug 30, 2008 at 9:32 am
[…] vaccine blog, as vaccines are so frequently a topic here. There’s what some refer to as their right to vaccinate or not. There’ve been recent outbreaks of measles and mumps, with many cases […]
satchmo
Oct 17, 2008 at 2:31 pm
I respect those who prefer to have a natural approach to sickness and health.
But please do not bring your child to the doctor or hospital when he or she is sick. Just do your best to heal your children at home.
Is it worth it for pro-vaccine advocates to appear on Oprah?
Oct 21, 2008 at 4:45 pm
[…] is plenty to discuss about why some parents feel they deserve a choice about whether or not to vaccinate their children, and why they feel so unconvinced and at odds with science. But can a show like Oprah really […]
Immunizations Up; Parents Seeking Just a Little More Control
Nov 10, 2008 at 1:26 am
[…] —-it gives parents the feeling that they have some right to choose. […]
Refrigerator Mothers, Warrior Mothers: One and the Same?
Nov 25, 2008 at 2:16 am
[…] by living the wrong way. Is this sentiment not floating in the thoughts of parents who demand their right to choose vaccination for their children or not? Behind the green “Too Good” line of household cleaning […]
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