The Vaccine-Autism Urban Myth
If there has been a more harmful urban legend circulating in our society than the vaccine-autism link, it is hard to know what it might be.
Writes Arthur Caplan, Emanuel and Robert Hart Professor of Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, where he co-directs the Ethics and Vaccines Project, in an op-ed in today’s Philadelphia Inquirer. Despite no scientific proof to the contrary—-”thimerosal has been removed from vaccines in this and other countries for many years, with no obvious impact on the incidence of autism“—it seems that a connection between vaccines and autism has become entrenched in the public consciousness; has become the stuff of urban myth. Caplan cites more than a few examples of how anti-vaccine advocates have had an impact on public health, and not necessarily for the better:
When one of my students recently conducted a pilot study of attitudes about the new cervical-cancer vaccine, fears about autism were prominent among the reasons many respondents gave for being wary of the vaccine. Friends of mine continue to tell me of parents in Lafayette Hill, Voorhees, Greenville and Downingtown who won’t have their children vaccinated because of the risk of autism. States continue to allow parents to opt out of vaccines on “philosophical” grounds - perhaps the only arena in American public life where “secular philosophy” is given legal standing in public policy. And even some young health-care workers report that they don’t get important vaccines that would protect them, their families and their vulnerable patients against death because of worries about autism and vaccines.
Not science, but distrust—of “medicine, science, government and experts, a distrust that has little to do with scientific studies or expert opinions”—fuels anti-vaccine fervor. A just-published study by Stanford researchers highlights the disconnect between what science journalists report about autism (environmental causes for autism comprise 48% of their reporting) and what scientists actually study (brain and behavior research accounts for 41% of their research).
It is the extent of this “disconnect”—-between scientific evidence confuting a vaccine-autism link on the one hand, and a continued “populist” belief that “vaccines caused my child to become autistic“—-that puzzles and yet intrigues me. Can it be that the “establishment” of scientists have sequestered themselves so far away up in the gleaming ivory tower white of their research labs that they simply cannot hear the stories of parents who again and again offer the simple evidence of their eyes: One day my child was normal. The next day, after the vaccine, he was not?
That said, I will offer up a bit of my own experience which is, I know a vaccine did not cause my son Charlie to be “become” autistic. Indeed, I think he was as he is from the time he was conceived: Charlie has always been Charlie. Just as Charlie was being diagnosed with autism in July of 1999, Jim and I started to read website after website about a connection between the MMR vaccine and autism. We wracked our memories, I checked the journal I have kept from the time I was expecting Charlie, we went over and over the medical records: No.
And yet, when Charlie turned five, we decided not to have him vaccinated. (Despite Jim’s too-obvious statement: “It can’t make him autistic. He already is.”) For an hour I held a sweaty, miserable, screaming, writhing Charlie in my lap as a nurse tried to draw enough blood out of him to have his titres checked. After exchanging some emails messages with other parents, Jim and I wrote a letter seeking a religious exemption against having Charlie vaccinated and even today as I recall the wording of that letter, the lines from the Bible quoted, I know I signed without believing what was on that piece of paper.
“Vaccine” and “autism” had become for me—have become in the public psyche—not merely linked. These two words, which have nothing intrinisically to do with each other, have become equated, and because of coincidence, of a correlation that seems to contain a clue to causation: An 18-month-old child receives her or his immunizations. An 18-month-old child is noticed to not be playing in varied ways, or interacting, or speaking. The parents know they have “done everything” to ensure their child’s health and development, have followed the advice of the pediatrician exactingly, and then some, so it must be some external agent, some mysterious force, that has caused this terrible change in a child. And—-because so much seemed to go wrong when the doctor’s advice and instructions were first followed—the parent, now with not only a “diseased” child but one with hard-to-control behaviors, turns away from traditional medicine and seeks answers elsewhere.
I think, that is, it is possible to understand why so many parents believe in a vaccine-autism link. What I am trying still to understand, is how to dispute such a link; as Professor Caplan’s op-ed suggests, appeals to the evidence of science have yet to be effective.
When I was enrolling Charlie in the school district in the town we now live in back in May, I discovered that a letter stating our “religious grounds” for objecting to his being vaccinated was not going to be accepted without having to take things much farther. We were desperate, not because we have an autistic child, but because we needed to make sure that Charlie was in a school placement as his old school was closing, and the fear he underwent when we kept him out of school in November of 2005 seemed to us much worse than any threated from a vaccine. Late last spring, Charlie received the shots he had not had at the age of 5. He looked at the nurse sticking the needle in his arm, maybe winced a bit. There was no crying and we walked out to the car, and that was that.
Perhaps if more stories of how “a vaccine didn’t cause my child’s autism” were heard, we could start to tease apart the vaccine-autism link and show what strange bedfellows these two have been all along.
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POSTED IN: Environment, Epidemic, Media, Medicine, Vaccines
296 opinions for The Vaccine-Autism Urban Myth
Flu Patrol » The vaccine-autism myth
Feb 6, 2007 at 3:44 pm
[…] Go ahead and read her story at Autism Vox. It’s an eye-opener. […]
Daisy
Feb 6, 2007 at 5:44 pm
The urge to blame is very American, just like the urge to file suit. This is unfortunate, because it means false beliefs can derail real research into treatment, education, and (perhaps) causes of autism.
Leila
Feb 6, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Even when all the studies point to the lack of connection, the mercury-autism proponents think the studies were funded by “Big Pharma”, CDC, etc and therefore were biased. There’s no way to change those people’s minds.
My boy was born in 2003 in California and that was after thimerosal was removed from vaccines. He didn’t seem to have any reactions from vaccines, like fevers or change in behavior. I did not get any shots during or just before pregnancy. Still, he is autistic.
I took my son to have his flu shot this Fall and I cannot tell this to any of the autism parents in my community otherwise they’ll probably stop talking to me. All I know is that my kid has not had a bad cold since October 2005, and neither have I (after having flu shots as well both in 05 and 06). Our pediatrician assured me the flu shot was thimerosal-free for my son (even though he was just past 36 months). My father-in-law is a doctor and advised us to vaccinate because the flu is too dangerous for kids under 5.
Laura Cottington
Feb 6, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Leila, forgive me please, but I am smiling from ear to ear, and perhaps chuckling a little after reading your
“I took my son to have his flu shot this Fall and I cannot tell this to any of the autism parents in my community otherwise they’ll probably stop talking to me.”
One hundred percent true in my community too, and didn’t tell anyone either. And…Sam had to go twice for the flu shot since it was his first time. Thanks for your honesty!
Daisy
Feb 6, 2007 at 10:01 pm
I usually don’t comment twice on a post — but it’s great that the blogosphere has allowed our “community” to grow. My son’s autism (Aspergers), like his blindness, is very likely genetic, not vaccine-caused.
Mary
Feb 6, 2007 at 11:02 pm
There is thirmesol in flu shots and that ingredient has the mercury in it.
Perhaps the autism did not come from the mercury, but rather, autism is an autoimmunity disease quite like arthritis, then what?
Of course some autism is genetic, that does not mean that vaccines are safe.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 6, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Dr. Caplan notes the risks and benefits of vaccines in his op-ed.
Mary
Feb 7, 2007 at 12:04 am
You’ll notice that Dr. Caplan also does not write one reference, that I saw, in his op-ed. Even op-eds need to have a smattering of “where the heck did you get this info” strew into them.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 7, 2007 at 12:07 am
Association of Autistic Spectrum Disorder and the Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccine: A Systematic Review of Current Epidemiological Evidence
Kumanan Wilson, MD, MSc, FRCP(C); Ed Mills, DPH; Cory Ross, MSc, DPH, CHE; Jessie McGowan, BMus, MLIS; Alex Jadad, MD, DPhil, FRCP(C)
Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2003;157:628-634.
A
Feb 7, 2007 at 12:11 am
Mary-
Not all flu vaccines contain thimerosal. It depends upon who the vaccine manufacturer is. If the vaccine that Leila’s son received was given by their pediatrician, it is very likely that the vaccine did not contain thimerosal.
Mary
Feb 7, 2007 at 12:21 am
I’m confused, and should possibly ask Dr. Caplan, are you saying that the op-ed he just wrote he based on a 2003 op-ed? One that he doesn’t even refer to in his op-ed?
And for the record, I’m not saying mercury causes autism, actually I buy into a whole different theory!
Thanks
Mary
Feb 7, 2007 at 12:22 am
That first op-ed should read article - it’s late!
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 7, 2007 at 12:25 am
Hi Mary—-in the comment above I cite an article from Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine on a review of evidence for an MMR/autism link; the researchers note that “The current literature does not suggest an association between ASD and the MMR vaccine.”
Autism Vox » Yet another (environmental) cause for autism
Feb 7, 2007 at 1:25 pm
[…] Even when definitive evidence is presented that vaccines do not cause autism, plenty of theories proposing various other environmental agents and toxins remain. Some other candidates I have mentioned here are: electronic devices such as cell phones, air pollution, and ultrasounds. A post in today’s Omega-News on the dangers of electropollution conflates these various causes and refers specifically to the rise in the prevalence of autism as a sign of these environmental ills: The explosion of wireless technology has brought with it a totally new form of dangerous radiation called electropollution. Humanity is now exposed to more than 100 million times more radiation than just two decades ago. ……… The most vulnerable are the children. Their cells are still growing and are filled with more fluid, thus the radiation can penetrate much faster into their cells. Disney got in the game big time recently with offers of family plans and a kid starter plans targeted to 8-to-12 year-olds. An 8-year-old child who gets a cell phone will by age 28 have used a cell phone for longer than anyone to date. Consider this: In 1970, one out of 10,000 children were diagnosed with autism. Last year, one in 166 children were diagnosed with autism. Many scientists and some doctors are now trying to get the word out that we are now starting to see genetic damage that is weakening our children’s cells, thus causing many more health challenges such as autism. […]
mumkeepingsane
Feb 7, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Patrick’s autism was not caused by vaccines. I try to tell everyone that in an effort to dispell this myth.
He has never had a vaccine with thimerisol in it. No flu shots (we’ve also never had the flu), no rogham or shots in pregnancy, and he’s never had a reaction to a vaccination. I even asked the doctor to give him his DPTP and MMR in different months because I didn’t like the idea of that many vaccines in one visit.
I noticed autistic tendancies (although I didn’t recognize them as such) shortly after Patrick’s birth and they increased over the years until he was finally diagnosed at age 4. No regression simply slower development than typical children.
And yet still, when he goes in for his MMR booster next month I’ll be terrified. When you hear something so many times it can cause great fear.
Laura Cottington
Feb 9, 2007 at 12:29 am
I do know one thing, I will never miss a flu shot for my son with Autism and my neurotypical son ever again. You can die from the flu, Sam will not die from Autism. We had two more children die in our state today from the flu. That is the 3rd child to die in our state in the last two weeks. None of them had their flu vaccines. Minnesota accounts for 3 of the 13 nationwide deaths so far this season from flu. And they are all 3 children.
http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=243119
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 9, 2007 at 12:37 am
Thanks for sharing that Laura—-so sad.
mumkeepingsane—-I was thoroughly apprehensive when I took Charlie in for his vaccines back in the spring. It turned out to be the “biggest no deal”—he was very calm about getting the actual shots, wriggled his arm a bit, walked out almost with a shrug (I had told him we would get his favorite sushi…..). That was perhaps the biggest proof I needed.
Mary
Feb 9, 2007 at 1:41 am
Laura,
I went and read that article and it said the one 8-year-old child had not had the vaccine, it did not say one way or the other for the other two.
Personally, I buy into the theory that autism is an autoimmunity disease and as such the vaccines are “triggering” the autism in children that may or may not have ever developed the actual symptoms without having had the vaccines.
And I say this as the mother of a child with an autoimmunity disease that was triggered by a vaccine (not autism).
So, if your son is allergic or getting a reaction from a vaccine, how would you know? Is he highly functioning with his autism?
Even people with flu vaccines still get the flu, so it’s a hard call either way and parents do the best they know based on what they believe, just like you do.
Kristina,
My children never cared about the shot itself either, it was the after affects that harmed them. I’ve had two children with severe reactions, therefore I decided my third child would not get vaccines. Makes sense to me!
Mary
Feb 9, 2007 at 1:43 am
Mumkeepingsane,
Did your son recieve vaccines from birth? If so, how would you know if it was a vaccine or not?
Also, there is quite a bit of talk that vaccines given to the mother are affecting the babies - makes sense to me.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 9, 2007 at 2:10 am
Thanks, Mary; if I may ask, what does your child have, if not autism? It is a new development that Charlie did not have a problem taking the vaccines, as he used to have a lot of difficulty being pricked by a needle. He was born with autism.
Laura Cottington
Feb 9, 2007 at 2:23 am
Mary,
Below is the second paragraph of the link I provided earlier:
“The Minnesota Department of Health has announced 2 more children have died from influenza. “None of these children were vaccinated, they all died within 4 days of their initial illness,” said Richard Danila, Deputy State Epidemiologist.”
The article I posted is the only “online” publication of the 3 deaths as of this evening. It was on all of our major networks 10pm news that they were confirmed to NOT have had the vaccines. Of which has instigated a huge surge to get them, and clinics will be open all weekend to allow parents to still get shots for their children, as our state reported flu totals are almost double already what they were total last year. Online info would be available by morning publications if you need to credit the source, I would suggest http://www.startribune.com
While my son has classic autism, I know that his was not caused by vaccines, the lot numbers for Sam’s confirmed that, and our clinic does not use thirmerisol and hasn’t since 2001. They also use flu vaccines that don’t contain it as well. So my point is that I knew in my heart by 4 months that Sam had autism anyway.
I too have my own theories of Autism and vaccines, just from my experience with the autism community in which I live. There is a vast majority of families here that are into chelation and biomed. In watching those children come in and out of their therapies, and from other reports, my personal theory, is this:
Yes some kids get diagnosed with autism and also test with high mercury levels. Their symptoms contain autistic behaviors, so of course they would be diagnosed as that. So, the ones that get “cured”, truly were allergic to the vaccines, and were absorbed into their systems much differentally than typical children. I don’t believe those kids were ever truly autistic and then “cured”.
I feel sorry for the kids in my community whose parents are so angry and so busy going to “natural alternative/biomed conferences”, supplementing their children with unknown herbs and vitamins of which no official studies have been done on to see just how much liver damage they will cause, running them to their DAN doctors weekly to check blood levels, running them here and there to cure them, that I don’t see their joy in their child. I don’t see the acceptance and love for who their beautiful child is. I feel so sad for these children. I feel sad that some day they may know that their parents could not accept them for who they were. There is a huge difference between trying to “fix” someone and making accomadations for them to enjoy life more, by helping them with speech and such. I am sorry to babble, but in my community, the parents that do those things, also blame vaccines for EVERYTHING! Their anger is hard to see past. I don’t believe anger has every helped bring peace to a situation.
As to your question about if Sam is high functioning. He is not Asperger’s, he is not PDD-NOS, he has classic Autism as stated earlier. I do not like to use the word higher functioning and lower functioning. It has been more and more uncomfortable for me to use. Our children in this community have autism, to define them as high or low is not words of choice that should describe who these beautiful individuals are.
What autoimmune disease does your child have, since they don’t have autism? I am glad you are able to find resources that you need from this community though. If you ever have questions on understanding autism, I would be more than happy to help.
GTP
Feb 9, 2007 at 10:12 am
Concerned parents/advocates are not anti-vaccine. Thimersol is a concern, but in itself not the sole issue. It is the cumulative affect of mercury exposure during critical neural development.
Mercury is everywhere from the water we drink to the fish we eat. We are slowly poisoning ourselves.
Roman civilation was so fond of its diverse uses of lead that they minimized the hazards it posed. Americans, like the Romans of yesteryear, are doing the same with mercury.
History does repeat itself.
Mary
Feb 9, 2007 at 11:05 am
Kristina (and Laura),
My daughter has Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis. I can relate it directly to her one year old round of shots.
Laura,
Those are excellent points, and ones that I hadn’t considered as you’ve stated them.
I too, as GTP said, don’t’ think mercury is our only concern. I think it’s the poisonous ingredients that “trigger” something in a body already genetically “predisposed” to something, such as arthritis and autism. My daughter never would have developed arthritis at one without the vaccines. However, she may have developed it later in life, maybe when she wasn’t growing and her legs would be the same length. Or maybe after her formative years so she could run and play like the other kids.
In the grand scheme of life, she has something that I’ve managed to somewhat control with supplements, like joint juice and we cut down on her dairy intakes, she gets plenty of exercise she can do, etc.
Laura,
When I asked about getting shots from birth, it’s because I truly believe that some kids are born with autism, but I also believe it’s the buildup of toxic ingredients (formaldehyde) etc., that take a toll on our little babies.
For example, the Hep B shot is given hours after birth, yet a babies kidneys and livers don’t start working until the second and third day of life, so where do those toxic chemicals go? IMO they go straight to the brain and they settle into the joints and for what? Hep B is a small number of babies that would get it: if mom had it, if they were exposed to a hospital setting where blood is a factor, if they were drug users or sexually promiscuous, so how and why does a brand new baby, born to regular old mom need a Hep B shot?
They don’t. Always follow the money, our kids are inundated with vaccines they don’t need. I am not against vaccines per se, I am against the number of them and how young they are being given.
Have you read (any of you) the Virus and the Vaccine?
Have you read any books against vaccines? I read both, to make sure I am getting a well rounded picture.
Autism Vox » Autism is an epidemic, New Jersey is toxic, and other urban myths
Feb 9, 2007 at 3:08 pm
[…] It is a sort of urban myth about the ancient world that the Roman empire fell because the Romans were poisoned by lead from their pipes and cooking vessels. Quite to the contrary, the Romans (for instance, Vitruvius, author of De Architectura, who lived in the time of the emperor Augustus) were aware of the dangers of lead poisoning, which did not lead to the decline and fall of Rome (as noted in this Encyclopædia Romana from the University of Chicago). Rome fell (as I reminded my students this morning) from a complex interplay of forces within the limits of the Roman empire and outside of it; we have been studying how the growth of slavery starting around the 3rd century B.C. wrought significant, and not immediately detectable, changes on Roman society and culture. The great Roman writer of comedies, Terence, was a slave from Africa, as were many of the well-educated Greeks whom the Romans brought back as captives and who taught their children. […]
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 9, 2007 at 5:53 pm
GTP: Thanks for the reference to the Romans, with whom I started this next post.
Thanks Mary for the information……vaccinves have certainly had questions attached to them since they were first used.
GTP
Feb 9, 2007 at 7:38 pm
True. The Romans were aware that lead caused serious health issues, even death. They (like society today) chose to ignore it or ignore the hazards it posed.
Complex interplay of forces? Sure- The Roman empire failed for many reasons such as over-expansion. But, impaired thinking skills also contributed to the decline. It’s well documented about craziness among the Roman elite. Does anyone remember reading about Caligula?
Lead contributes to impaired critical thinking skills as does mercury. Unfortunately our youngest are still paying the price today.
I wonder in the future if someone will say Autism is an urban myth and theorize that bad mothering is the reason.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 9, 2007 at 9:35 pm
GTP, I believe you refer to another urban myth that has been thoroughly discredited, and that has done as much harm as any heavy metals poisoning might do.
Autism Vox » Autism Mythology
Feb 10, 2007 at 3:23 am
[…] In recent posts I have referred to the notion of an “urban myth” more than a few times, thanks to its use in a February 6th op-ed, Fact: No link of vaccine, autism, by Arthur Caplan, Emanuel and Robert Hart Professor of Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania. On February 6th, I wrote about the vaccine-autism urban myth and, on February 9th, about three more “urban myths”: the decline of Roman civilization due to lead poisoning, the autism epidemic and New Jersey is toxic. […]
Autism Vox
Feb 11, 2007 at 4:18 am
[…] Consider the underpinnings of the vaccine theory of autism and other environmental theories: Such theories, in which some external agent is solely responsibility for taking away a child’s abilities to communicate and, truly, to be as a “normal” person, in effect render the child a helpless creature undone by phenomena completely beyond her or his control. Such theories that boil down autism to a single cause—to, for instance, “mercury poisoning“—depict a child as but a puppet at the mercy of various forces (mercury, pollutions, TV), and completely incapable of summoning any mental ability of his or her own. I do think it the case that these sorts of biological and biomedical theories of autism—which search hard to find an environmental factor to cast blame on and which represent children as victims—fail to account for the psychological complexities of autistic children and persons (though it does seem to me that there was more that was “perverse” about Bettelheim than his methods, in that his theory of autism aetiology rests on a single cause, bad parenting, and, in particular, the refrigerator mother). In oversimplifying what autism is—and what autistic people are—-a strictly biological understanding of autism can only make a limited and incomplete—if not simply inaccurate—contribution to considerations of what autism is and to how best to teach and treat autistic persons. […]
Autism Vox » Autism Mythology 2
Feb 15, 2007 at 3:35 am
[…] Unfortunately, one does not usually such a fast, and such a courteous and open-minded, response when trying to point out and expose autism myths. One rather meets some amount of contention, some vilification of various parties, and more than a little strife. When I posted on autism mythology a few days ago, the myths I highlighted were the vaccine-autism connection myth (with Dr. Andrew Wakefield being one of this myth’s key supporters) and the epidemic of autism myth, not to mention the much older myth of the refrigerator mother. Discussion (with opinions strongly expressed) ensued in the comments to my post about something that I do not believe is a myth, and which I will hazard to describe as the “neurodiversity myth” or (as some might rather phrase it) the “neurodiverse” or “ND” “movement.” As I understand it, “neurodiversity” is considered by some (not by me) to be a “myth” because of notions such as (1) autism is a difference and not a disability or disorder and (2) there are many similarities between autistic adults who are “high-functioning” enough so that they can speak, write blogs and books, work, etc. and autistic children who are considered “severe” and “low-functioning” and cannot talk, have many difficult behaviors, etc.. Broadly speaking, those who belief that “neurodiversity is a myth” seek to separate the hfa from the lfa and sometimes claim that these are completely different entities. […]
Autism Vox » Something To Make You Think
Mar 2, 2007 at 3:28 am
[…] As you may have noticed over the past few days, or weeks, or months, there have been a few other things to write about regarding autism: cause—-cure—-the autism “epidemic“—-vaccines—-why in the world there is so much autism in New Jersey—-little Katherine McCarron—-the genetics of autism—-disablity and mythology in the ancient world—-legislation for autism in New Jersey—-Sigourney Weaver as an autistic woman—-poetry—-the rhetoric of autism writing—-and a really good book. […]
Autism Vox » Why I Don’t Worry About Causation
Mar 4, 2007 at 4:05 am
[…] This statement is indeed true, as evinced by some recent discussions here regarding environmental toxins and vaccines. When I read accounts of researchers, or of parents, in determined pursuit about what caused their child to become autisitic, to change from a happy and normally developing child overnight, I often feel as if I am reading a tightly paced mystery novel, or the script to a fast-paced suspense movie, in which the protagonist is (like the mother in Lorenzo’s Oil) on a hunt to find the culprit that did this to her child. […]
Darryl
Mar 6, 2007 at 3:15 pm
“I took my son to have his flu shot this Fall and I cannot tell this to any of the autism parents in my community otherwise they’ll probably stop talking to me.”
Yep, true for some of the parents I know too.
On one of the autism-themed community forums I visit, someone posted that the autism-vaccine link had been 100% irrefutably proven. Somone challenged that position. The original poster called anyone who didn’t believe the “proof” an uninformed idiot, then went on a rant about how studies which don’t support the link are all part of a massive conspiracy funded by drug companies. What really surprised me is that just about everyone else who joined the thread supported her! From what I’ve seen both online and face to face, a clear majority of parents of autistic children believe vaccines caused or strongly contributed to their children’s autism.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Mar 6, 2007 at 3:27 pm
I have noticed the same. I’ve also noticed the same pattern of someone says “vaccines don’t cause autism” and some very vocal advocates for the opposite jump in and keep arguing, and cite various conspiray theories. I think those who don’t support the vaccine-autism theory can feel a little intimidated.
Darryl
Mar 6, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Perhaps it is easier for some people to deal with a life they didn’t expect (for themselves AND their children) by explaining its source. Taking away their tidy explanation also takes away their (false) sense of control.
I also wonder if the vaccine theory resonates with so many because it mirrors feelings of guilt and victimization that are common among parents of autistic children.
Mary
Mar 6, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Darryl:
I don’t think so. After all, if there were other reasons for autism, then parents would do that. But there is a real connection, and the case has actually been weakened by only blaming mercury.
There is no tidy explanation, for any of us, and actually I see it just the opposite: Admitting that there may be a connection takes the control away from you that are against the connection and the control our corp.’s and govt. control us with.
Darryl
Mar 6, 2007 at 7:53 pm
I leave the door open for there to be a connection between autism and vaccines. I’m not disputing the link. I’m not “against the connection.” I personally believe that it is entirely possible that some cases of autism - perhaps a majority - may have been induced by vaccination. It’s unlikely in my mind, but entirely possible. The accuracy of the vaccine theory is pretty much irrelevant to my comment above.
What I _am_ addressing is the culture that has grown around the vaccine connection. The percentage of parents who hold this particular viewpoint and the adamancy with which they defend that viewpoint is unusual. For so many other topics the public just swallows what they are spoon fed. We jump right on board with the media on everything from fashion sense to attitudes about healthcare to family values to just about everything else, but when it comes to the origin of autism there’s a mass mutiny. Why? The evidence which supports the vaccine link, even if it is completely accurate, does not explain why so many parents hold this viewpoint. After all, even in the presence of an infinite amount of evidence the public will ignore it if they don’t like what they see. There are studies which support the vaccine connection, but that’s not why so many parents preach the anti-vaccine gospel with a religious fervor the crusadors would have been proud of. The ferocity of the attacks against anyone who dares to challenge the vaccine link is breathtaking. It is definitely an interesting phenomenon, regardless of where the truth lies. I was simply suggesting one possible explanation for the phenomenon.
Maybe I should explain a little more. I’ve been involved with a support group for parents of disabled children. The children have many types of disabilities, not just autism. Among the most common feelings I see in the group is guilt. Parents feel guilty regardless of whether they had anything to do with their child’s disability. Even the adopted father of a so-called crack baby said he felt guilty and couldn’t explain why. Just as common is a feeling of victimization. Parents feel victimized and then try to explain why they feel that way. They usually project their victimization onto God, fate, or even their own kids. It isn’t a rational feeling, it just comes. Since I know for a fact how common the feelings of guilt and victimization are, and I know how our brains tend to come up with an explanation for our feelings (feel first, explain second), it seems like more than coincidence that vaccines provide a really convenient outlet for both of those feelings. We get to explain our guilt because we chose to have our children vaccinated. We get to explain our feelings of victimization because “the system” tricked us into giving our kids those shots.
My theory could be dead wrong, it’s just a possiblity. And again, it has nothing to do with whether the vaccine theory is right. It applies if the anti-vaccine viewpoint is correct, and it applies if the anti-vaccine viewpoint is not correct.
Mary
Mar 6, 2007 at 8:17 pm
I see what you’re saying a bit better.
Yes, there is guilt for parents. But frankly, even parents with healthy children feel guilt, such as when kids seem to “go wrong.”
I’m not sure if victimization is an accurate definition for the way I feel, but I do feel that we are being let down as a society and the more research I do, the more I feel that way, not less.
For example, the Virus and the Vaccine is a book that exposes the polio virus as the reason we have SV40 simian virus in our society and as a reason for specifics cancer. How is this okay with people? The book has been out since 2004 and yet the amount of press it has rec’d (unless I’m not aware) has been teenie tiny — where is the outrage at a vaccine that was forced on our children for forty years that caused cancer?
What kind of a book will be written 40-50 years from now about the ingredients we are injecting into our babies at BIRTH?
To me there is an epidemic in autoimmunity disorders, such as arthritis, and yet there are either people on one side or the other when there is room in the middle. Yes, vaccines seem to have changed our society. But there is also another Yes, that in that change they have also made us one of the most disease ridden societies in our existence.
And just try to get the numbers on vaccine injured kids, it’s next to impossible, and if we could get it, the numbers would be so much lower than reality that its’ sad.
I’m not a victim, my child is. Her arthritis was triggered by a vaccine - and it’s a proven connection. It’s the rubella part of the MMR vaccine, where is the outrage? Where is the accountability? Why can’t we sue the vaccine makers? Why is there so much profit in vaccines, yet parents are made to feel ashamed if they don’t vaccinate their kids?
Darryl
Mar 6, 2007 at 8:32 pm
“For example, the Virus and the Vaccine is a book that exposes the polio virus as the reason we have SV40 simian virus in our society and as a reason for specifics cancer. How is this okay with people? The book has been out since 2004 and yet the amount of press it has rec’d (unless I’m not aware) has been teenie tiny — where is the outrage at a vaccine that was forced on our children for forty years that caused cancer?”
This makes for a pretty good example of what I’ve been trying to say. Information like this comes out and the vast majority of the public will ignore it (myself included). Why is the proposed autism/vaccine link not equally ignored? Instead people espouse the idea with gusto. Regardless of the true relationship between autism and vaccines, it’s interesting.
Mary
Mar 7, 2007 at 9:38 am
AHHH, it’s taking me a while, but now I really get what you mean.
Interesting! And perplexing as well. Why is Autism the singled out disease of choice?
Maybe the damage to the child (in some perceptions. I know there is one mother on here that chooses to think that her child is not “damaged” at all) is so heinous to most parents that this just stands out.
I know that my daughter’s condition is not the worst thing that could ever happen to her, or me for that matter, and that’s what I’m teaching her. She can control it to a certain extent and she is supposed to be able to “grow” out of it by 18, but if my child were affected with autism and there were not light at the end of any tunnels, I might be a whole different parent!
Interesting . . .
Kristina Chew, PhD
Mar 7, 2007 at 10:22 am
Darryl wrote, a few comments back:
I think there is something in this: The pattern I see in so many narratives of parents of autistic children is of feeling helpless and “victimized” as one’s child “slips into autism” and then, after diagnosis, the parent becomes a very active advocate, perhaps as if to challenge any feelings of guilt.
Mary
Mar 7, 2007 at 11:09 am
Kristina,
I think the theory has legs, but I also think that it trivializes what a parent with an autistic child is going through. They aren’t just looking to justify their own hurt and anger (in my opinion) they are looking to change the CAUSE so that other parents don’t have to go through the same thing.
As an advocate against some people getting vaccines, I won’t change a thing in my daughter’s life, but I could change the life of another child whose mother reads my words, recognizes the autoimmunity issues in her own family and decides to delay vaccines, or even decides that vaccines aren’t for her kids.
It doesn’t give me any less guilt to talk about our condition and what caused it, I was still the mother, I still let them vaccinate her, at a health department no less, who didn’t say squat about “who should not get vaccines.”
I’m not trying to justify my existence by now being an advocate, I’m trying to change the system and I’m trying to alert other mothers that their child could be next. I think that’s what parents of autistic children are doing as well.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Mar 7, 2007 at 11:47 am
The day to day narratives of life raising our children, autistic and otherwise, show how “untrivial” our life with them is, however it came to be.
Autism Vox » Science and Scientific Controversy, Journalists and Parents
Mar 8, 2007 at 12:58 am
[…] “Some alleged ’scientific’ disputes are more or less invented out of whole cloth, creating controversy where, among scientists, none actually exists,” writes Dennis Myers in the March 7 NewsReview.com (Reno). A hypothesis linking abortion to breast cancer—the “ABC link”—is regarded as a “myth” by the scientific community (see this report from the National Cancer Institute). There is “virtually no evidence to support” such a link, as is the case for a vaccine-autism link. Myers further writes about how “journalism often functions to distort the debate” in disputes about science: The reporter cranks out a report with a sound bite from each side, then leaves the reader or viewer adrift, with no guidance on who is right. “The real jerks are the ones who take a 200-scientist report that took three years to write with three rounds of reviews, give it two inches, and then go get two guys funded by Exxon, give them two inches, and say they’re equally credible,” said Stanford biologist Stephen Schneider, who has posted a discussion of “mediarology” on his Web site (http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/). ……….. Sometimes news coverage is simply misleading, as when reporters portray science in competition not with science but with ideology or dogma or commerce or religion. Scientists should be allowed to compete with informed criticism of their work by informed and unconvinced competing experts. ……….. […]
M.M.
Apr 7, 2007 at 4:53 pm
I don’t understand the logic some people are using here. Several people here have argued that their child couln’t possibly have gotten autism from vaccinations because their vaccinations did not contain mercury. Why are you assuming that it’s only the “mercury factor” that is causing autism? What about the overload to the immune system that the vaccines are causing in the first place? What about other non-mercury factors? And why are you so quick to arrogantly dismiss the thousands of parents who witnessed a profound change in their child immediatey following a vaccination? There is a connection. We just don’t know what it is yet.
There were also some posts from parents of austistic children who gave their children flu shots and said they couldn’t tell their friends. I, too, would be reluctant to tell my friends that I was a child-abuser, because that’s exactly what you are.
Laura Cottington
Apr 8, 2007 at 12:26 am
M.M.~
I am one of (quote)…
some posts from parents of autistic children who gave their children flu shots and said they couldn’t tell their friends. I, too, would be reluctant to tell my friends that I was a child-abuser, because that’s exactly what you are.(end quote)
First, I wanted to clarify for me, that my earlier comment was stated as “my autism community” which does not mean friends in all cases. It means people in my area, whom I am acquainted with through speech/ot therapy sessions, school support groups, local agencies, etc…with a small portion of these community people resorting to interventions I would not choose for my son. I made the statement that I did, as this same group of people are weekly injecting untested/unapproved treatments into their children, as well as having them take vast amounts of herbal remedies (that cause liver damage) but would never think of injecting one flu shot. That seems negligent to me.
My husband and I have chosen not to use angry energy blaming and making excuses for our sons autism. Anger is only one letter short of danger. Instead, our energies are best spent in helping him adapt to this world (and educating others so they can adapt and accept him) so that he may enjoy life fully.
“He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else”~Benjamin Franklin
Phil Schwarz
Apr 8, 2007 at 12:39 am
Laura, it sounds like your local community — like so many across North America — could use more support groups that do *not* have a group culture of pressure-to-cure; that support those questioning conventional wisdom; that support the goals and priorities of autistic people themselves; and that facilitate practical problem-solving to mitigate and circumvent specific handicaps.
Estee Klar Wolfond’s organization, The Autism Acceptance Project ( http://www.taaproject.com ), has started such a support group in Toronto. I would like to see her model replicated throughout North America.
Mary
Apr 8, 2007 at 4:21 pm
I wasn’t going to say anymore on this post, but for all the people who doubt that the parents actually KNOW what is harming their children, have any of you ever wondered why societies that are not using vaccines and feeding their children highly processed poisons, don’t have the same issues with autism that we seem to have?
Has anyone considered that autism is a compilation of abuses that we subject ourselves to (as women who are literally breeding) and our children?
It’s a no-brainer for me, but then I used to believe in Vaccines until my own child was harmed. I guess that’s what it will take for many others. They have to see it, feel it, cry about it and then do reasearch before they will ever believe that something they believed in so fully could be wrong.
Stop accepting the damage to our children, start questioning the origins of that damage, start questioning the ingredients in your child’s food, start questioning your own health and the health of the ones you love. Stop buying into garbage for the sake of making someone else rich.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 8, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Thanks, Mary. Autism is found throughout the world. I think one has to be caseful how one uses a word like “abuses” in reference to autism causation, due to the history of autism aetiology.
Kev
Apr 8, 2007 at 6:10 pm
“have any of you ever wondered why societies that are not using vaccines and feeding their children highly processed poisons, don’t have the same issues with autism that we seem to have?”
Which societies are these?
You know what I love about people’s comments like yours Mary? The idea that you believe what you’ve done is research.
Mary
Apr 9, 2007 at 8:30 am
No, research is if I could travel there myself and see for myself the differences in our children from theirs.
However, some of what I’ve done is first hand research. I have one child fully vaccinated, with a horrible response, but I was too young to know. One child vaccinated to her first birthday, horrible response, and one child not vaccinated at all.
I’ve read more than a handful of books and papers and talked with parents of injured children. What have you done that consitutes “research.”
The societies are:
Vilcabamba
Hunza
Okinawa
Again, before you question what I have and have not done, perhaps you should post what you’ve done.
My contention is that we are abusing our kids through the food we feed them, the lack of exercise they get, the total vaccines we are pushing into them and more.
I consider it abuse, and I’m doing what I can to change those aspects of my children’s lives.
Yes, autism has been blamed on mothers in the past (but thanks for the big word) and it’s my contention that mothers may be missing something — such as vitamins or minerals.
We were wrong about the “refridgerator” (sp) mothers, so who says we aren’t wrong about chemicals and vaccines?
Autism is not normal. Period.
Mary
Apr 9, 2007 at 8:40 am
Laura,
What on earth makes you think that someone who knows how to make an herbal remedy doesn’t know that huge amounts could cause some liver damage?
And did you know it would take gallons of the said herbal remedy (in most cases) to do any damage.
Why place blame?
Because our govt., is still injecting kids with more vaccines today than ever before. That’s why blame needs to be placed. IT needs to change.
I don’t blame parents. I blame the complete and utter indoctrination that we’ve suffered since the 1940s into the way of believing that vaccines are the end all be all of life.
There was a woman who is a 102 today who made a hole-in-one. I don’t know her, but I’m willing to put my money on the fact that she’s had little to no vaccines!
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 9, 2007 at 9:25 am
“Autism is not normal”: I do not believe this to be the case.
Mary
Apr 9, 2007 at 9:51 am
Based on what Kristina?
Animals, when given the proper amounts of vitamins, sustenance, minerals, clean water, clean living conditions and two parents free from disease, are born “normal” (which is a relative term, I agree).
When an animal is unfit for breeding, the farmer, rancher, breeder, culls this animal and does not allow it to breed any longer. Clearly, we cannot do this with humans, but the point is that we have humans (probably myself included) who are not at 100%, but still make babies.
Through the years, the abuses from vaccines, chemicals, processed foods, overwork, stress, unclean air, etc., take their toll and it’s showing through the sicknesses of our children.
That’s my theory - but I”m not a doctor, nor am I a scientist, so it’s worth about 2 cents.
Autism is not a normal condition, nor has it ever been considered normal until this era. An era that tends to normalize anything and everything to make people “feel better.”
I’m not saying that an autistic child cannot lead a great life. I’m saying that we had to turn the tide on what we will allow and what we won’t, or soon we’ll have a world full of disease and no one will remember what it was like before all this. IN fact, I’m pretty sure many people think that being diseased is a way of life. That it’s just part and parcel of being human, and it’s not.
With the proper nutrition, exercise and family support many people live life without drugs, therapy or the constant onslaught of disease.
Anyway, just my two cents. Take it or leave it. I’m not into changing the world, but I am into changing my family for the better. I just wish I’d have known all this when I first started having kids so none of them would even know what sugar tastes like and I would be healthier as well. But we all have to start somewhere and for me it was cutting vaccinations out of our lives.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 9, 2007 at 10:53 am
Thanks for your comments, Mary.
Based on this: “Normal” is a subjective category. The notion of “normal” has been shown to have arise in the Early Modern Period, as noted by disability studies scholar Lennard Davis. What is “normal” in one culture (making eye contact, for instance) may well not be in another (in some Asian cultures). It’s a little dangerous to assume that “normal” is some static category or way of being human. Unfortunately, it is not too long ago that persons of different races, ethnicities, and genders were not considered “normal.”
Mary
Apr 9, 2007 at 10:57 am
In this culture, autism was not “normal” until this era - and now it is being normalized into acceptance by sites like this.
Instead of finding ways to prevent it, we pat each other on the back for accepting yet another disease that is changing the lives of our children.
Can’t buy in . . .
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 9, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Autism was not identified until the previous century. Disability (physical as well as cognitive) and different types of difference (racial, ethnic, gender and sexual orientation) are alike being “normalized into acceptance.”
Caveat emptor!
Mary
Apr 9, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Kristina,
I’m a bit confused on which side of the argument you are arguing for?
I realize when it was recognized, I said it wasn’t “normalized” until this era, e.g. a time period dominated by a particular physical process.
How does “buyer beware” figure into this conversation? You lost me.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 9, 2007 at 12:49 pm
I was following on your “don’t buy in” comment. I am always curious to hear from all sides.
Mary
Apr 9, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Ahhhh, referring to my own comment…. my apologies for not being able to keep up!! LOL
Glad to hear that you’re still open to both sides, it’s rare.
I too am still open to some vaccines actually working, but dead set against the amount of vaccines we are injecting our little bitty babies with!!
Happy Easter week to you - off to do some of the housework I can’t seem to stop procrastinating on!
Kev
Apr 9, 2007 at 2:25 pm
“The societies are:
Vilcabamba
Hunza
Okinawa
Again, before you question what I have and have not done, perhaps you should post what you’ve done.”
And where are the double blind peer reviewed studies that show low vaccine uptake and no autism?
“I realize when it was recognized, I said it wasn’t “normalized” until this era, e.g. a time period dominated by a particular physical process.”
And as Kristina tried politely to point out to you - it was once ‘normalized’ to be racist, sexist, homophobic et al. I’m going to suggest to you we’ve bettered ourselves since those times. Maybe you disagree.
Mary
Apr 9, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Hey Kev,
First, your manner of conversing leaves quite a bit to be desired. I will try not to lower myself to your level as I point out that I am arguing against normalizing autism. IN other words, I don’t consider racism to be normal and it was “normalized” within its own time period. I argue that autism is not a normal condition.
I notice that instead of propping up your own posts with actual books read, degrees earned, perhaps your own child being injured, you attack me and ask me where the double blind studies are — Hey Kev……….. I don’t need double blind studies to show me something that I can figure out for myself.
My child went in and got a vaccine -
My child developed JRA less than 30 days later –
My child is affected forever from that –
Same for parents of autistic kids who KNOW that the vaccine was the cause, or perhaps you are more comfortable with the word “trigger” that sent their child into a land they cannot rescue them from.
Kassiane
Apr 9, 2007 at 3:04 pm
I consider autism to be a normal part of the human (and indeed, animal-ever meet a cat?) condition.
My family, if you trace back, is full autistics and “cousins”. I’m the most obvious but I am also the only epileptic, the most premature by far, and the only one with a MecP2 mutation. Regardless, autism & relation conditions are thick in my family–starting with the duke who burned his house in support of the French Revolution or something like that. He lived in CROATIA. That’s pretty cousin-y, at least.
Difference isn’t a bad thing. Aren’t you glad the visible color spectrum goes from red to violet? I sure am…
Mary
Apr 9, 2007 at 3:24 pm
To be sure autism is also genetic. I am not denying that at all.
Yes, I am glad for the differences in us all. I’m not arguing for a same society, I’m arguing the amount of vaccines we force into our babies.
I think this conversation has gone on for so long, the original point has been lost some time ago.
And since you brought up animals, they are also dying due to vaccines - cancer being the number one cause. Liver failure, kidney failure, etc., well documented and written about quite a bit. Many people don’t vaccinate their animals either.
Mary
Apr 9, 2007 at 3:25 pm
I forgot to ask Kassiane:
Were you vaccinated as a baby? If so, do you recall which ones? How many? How young you would have been?
Will you vaccinate your own children, should you have them?
Kristina Chew, PhD
Apr 9, 2007 at 3:44 pm
I’m open to listen; I think the vaccine-autism theory has caused a lot of energy to be spent on concerns that detract from the real issues.
Kev
Apr 9, 2007 at 5:40 pm
“…I am arguing against normalizing autism. IN other words, I don’t consider racism to be normal and it was “normalized” within its own time period. I argue that autism is not a normal condition.”
Non-whites were once considered to be not normal. Homosexuality was considered a psychiatric illness just like autism is until the 1970’s. Emily Pankhurst was considered mad and institutionalised by men. I find your view disturbing and contextually flawed. I’ll suggest to you once more that we’ve improved as a species since these times. Hopefully we can move past your kind of prejudice soon as well.
“I notice that instead of propping up your own posts with actual books read, degrees earned, perhaps your own child being injured,”
What has any of this to do with your claim that you know of societies that don’t vaccinate and have no autism? I’m simply asking you to back that up with factual data. Can you or not?
“you attack me and ask me where the double blind studies are — Hey Kev……….. I don’t need double blind studies to show me something that I can figure out for myself.”
I see. People used to ‘know’ the sun orbited the Earth. They used to ‘know’ the earth was flat. Maybe you should rely less on your personal anecdotes which mean precisely zero and start looking at some science.
“Same for parents of autistic kids who KNOW that the vaccine was the cause”
They don’t KNOW any such thing. They might have a very strong opinion but that is not the same as factual knowledge.
Immunizations, Children, and Lots of Questions
Aug 10, 2007 at 1:05 am
[…] chelation as a treatment for heavy metal poisoning and its dangers; and my son Charlie’s own history of vaccination (he is up to date). I referred to journalist Arthur Allen’s book, Vaccine: The Controversial […]
Who Knows Best?: Physicians and Patients, Mythology and History
Sep 1, 2007 at 12:13 pm
[…] written before about autism mythology; about why the vaccine-autism myth continues to endure and is still believed in (and Kevin at Left Brain/Right Brain has a post today […]
Mike H
Sep 19, 2007 at 7:55 am
Going back to the original intent of this discussion to present stories of “how a vaccine did not cause my child’s autism,” I can say with conviction that a vaccine did not cause my child’s autism. My son was born premature and suffered from lack of oxygen during and immediately after birth. Such oxygen deprivation at birth has been linked to cognitive disorders and Autism. The signs of his autism, both behavioral and biological, were visible as early as 4 months old.
As for the people who KNOW what they saw - the child got a shot and then became autistic, it is possible to be certain about something and still be wrong (did we ever find WMDs in Iraq?). First, this type of regressive Autism is reported in only ~20% of the cases. If the MMR or total vaccine accumulation over 2-5 years is the cause, then why is there no regression in the other 80%? Rather, the skills never developed from birth to begin with in these children. Just because two events happen around the same time does not mean that one caused the other. For example, people eat more ice cream in the Summer, and more people drown in the Summer. That does not mean that eating ice cream causes drowning. Additionally, remember that Autism is primarily a neurological condition. While some Autistics have associated digestive probelms (reports say 20-30%) and some have immunological problems, ALL autistics have neurological issues, be they sensory integration, speech processing and expression, or motor difficulties. There are many known examples of genetic regressive neurological conditions that take years to develop - Parkinsons, Alzheimers, and Multiple Sclerosis are a few. It is likely that regressive Autism is just that, a regressive neurological condition encoded by genetics.
If you really look at what the scientific community is saying, the consensus is that Autism in general has a genetic basis that might be triggered by environmental factors. The vaccine link as THE INDISPUTABLE cause of all Autism is not supported by any evidence. However, it is possible that a component of any given vaccine may be the susceptibility trigger for a small percentage of cases. Estimates put this at a fraction of 1% of cases, which is too small a number to positively verify in any study.
The fact remaims that independent research performed in several countries across 3 continents have all shown no link between vaccines and Autism. For exaple, in Japan, the MMR vaccine was only given between 1988 and 1993. There, the incidence of Autism has continued to increase after the MMR was stopped. Other studies have looked at vaccinated and non-vaccinated populations living in the same city and found no difference in the incidence of Autism.
If you really want to look for a trigger, then environmental pollution is really gaining acceptance. A 2005 study from the University of Texas Health Science Center showed an increase in the chance of developing Autism correlated with the amount of pollution generated by local coal burning power plants. Other reports have shown that the rate of increase in Autism correlates with the rate of global warming caused by pollution (it does not correlate with vaccination rates). As one person pointed out, the rate of Autism appears to be higher in industrialized nations. Industrialized nations also have significantly more pollution. The studies showing no difference in incidence between vaccinated and non-vaccinated people in the same city would also support this hypothesis since those people would all be subject to similar pollutants.
I am not professing to know the causes of Autism. I do not belive that vaccines are the cause. I think in the end Autism will turn out to be similar to cancer - genetic in nature, with some mutaions causing immediate Autism, and others being caused by a combination of various genes and/or environmental exposures. To date there are about 20 genes that have been linked to Autism. The key will be finding identifying what these genes do and how they work together.
passionlessDrone
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:12 am
Hi Mike H -
“Other studies have looked at vaccinated and non-vaccinated populations living in the same city and found no difference in the incidence of Autism. ”
This sounds like a very interesting study, indeed one I did not think existed. Can you provide references?
Thanks!
-pD
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:30 am
It’s so frustrating for me to read that “environmental factors” may be at play in Autism. Uh, no duh.
And toxins in the environment are harmful, but the toxins in vaccines aren’t?
Consider what vaccines or toxins you and your spouse had in their body before conception. Then consider what was ingested, including water, during pregnancy — especially any vaccines.
Then consider that as soon as your child was born, premature, they started pumping your poor baby full of antiboitics, vaccines, drugs and more. Breastfeeding would have been limited to not at all and formula is full of ingredients like aspartame and msg.
Then consider that your baby would have gotten the 2-month old vaccines and the 4 month old vaccines — yet you continue to back the fact that vaccines could not have caused your babies condition.
Uh, yeah. It could have.
Why do human egos continue to rage against common sense. Do you really, really need someone else to tell you what you can see for yourself?
There is no such thing as a genetic epidemic — it’s all about toxins and what are the toxins that almost every child with autism have in common? THe toxins in vaccines.
They will never “Find” a link between vaccines and autism (even though many already have) because the lawsuits would cripple our economy and shatter the trust that we’ve put in our govt.
Read The Virus and the Vaccine — illuminating and well researched.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Sep 19, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Mike H, thank you for your thoughtful comment—I have heard, too, that as many as 100 genes might be linked to autism. Arthur Allens Vaccine: The Controversial Story of Medicine’s Greatest Lifesaver is further reading, if you have not already read it.
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Agreed, Allen’s book is a must read for both sides of the argument. Unfortunately, he puts too much trust and loyalty into believing that vaccines “saved” the world.
How about this, IF there are 100 genes that are affected by autism — then it’s likely those same genes are being damaged by toxins.
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 12:56 pm
By the way Mike — vaccines have been PROVEN to cause cancer.
We already know what causes cancer, we just aren’t smart enough to prevent it — we’d rather douse our world in chemicals, pesticides and fake food and then scratch our heads and go “why on earth did I get cancer?”
Again, cancer has been proven to be caused by viruses in vaccines — read The Virus and the Vaccine — heavily researched and footnoted by two very well respected journalists. The virus is SV40 — a simian virus that was given to people via the Polio vaccine.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Sep 19, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Mary, it’s very nice to hear from you again.
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Thanks Kristina — guess I can’t stay away!
Mike H
Sep 19, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Passionless Drone,
Here are two references to check out:
Fombonne, E, et al. “Pervasive developmental disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: prevalence and limks with autism.” Pediatrics, 2006 July; 118(1):139-150.
Uchiyama, T, et al. “MMR vaccine and regressive autism spectrum disorders: negative results presented from Japan.” J. Autism Dev. Disord. 2007, February; 37(2):210-217.
Mike H
Sep 19, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Mary,
Thank you for the flaming venom. It is interesting that you accuse me of not being able to see the forest for the trees, yet you yourself refiuse to accept the overwhelming body of evidence that repeatedly shows that vaccines do not cause autism. Couldn’t it be possible that it actually is something else? Your rant against me is a prime example of why there is no rational dialogue on this subject and why parents like myself and Laura cannot have conversations with others in the Autism community.
My son who almost dies at birth is autistic. I do not believe for one minute that vaccines had anything to do with causing his autism. Why can’t you accept that?
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 9:59 pm
The Japan results, take a good long hard look at the graph. It goes up right after the vaccines are stopped — right?
The vaccines would have been given before that spike, they would have still been used in smaller clinics, and after the “spike” that everyone acts like it derails the whole argument, the graph goes DOWN.
Now, I could come back with a dozen studies, and or references, even the last article in Scientific American that claims autism could be caused by too much TV. But my COMMON SENSE tells me that TV is not the reason we have 1 in every 100 child with autism.
You just will not believe it — so we’re at a catch 22. I’ve given you every reason to understand that a lack of breastfeeding, a lack of nutrient rich food, our adherence to pesticides and toxic vaccines are the reason for Austism, ALS, Parkinson’s, and more, but you’re stuck on what the “experts” that you deem appropriate tell you.
You know what I think”? I think this is Darwin’s way of culling out the followers………….
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Sorry Mike, it wasn’t meant as flaming venom. I get just as frustrated as you do, and I have a vaccine injured daughter as well.
You cannot take just vaccines or at least I cannot and blame everything on them. It also has to do with whatever mom was taking — my friend had three miscarriages from her ADD medication, yet she kept taking it. I don’t get it. Everything we do, everything we eat, everything we put on our bodies and breathe through our nose has the ability to harm us, yet thousands of parents think that the toxins in vaccines “couldn’t be the reason.”
How often and how much did your wife get vaccines, especially the flu shot, or if she works in health care, the Hep B shot, the Hep A shot, and others that they are forced to get. The TB test, the tetanus shot, etc. HOw depleted was her body before she ever even got pregnant?
Did she get the rhogam shots for example?
Yes, it’s totally possible that the lack of oxygen at birth is the reason for YOUR son’s autism, but that doesn’t discount the damage vaccines are doing and have done.
Mike H
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Mary,
I never said that vaccines are perfect and risk free. Every medical procedure has risks. Even a simple blood draw can lead to a deadly infection.
I had not heard about SV40 in the polio vaccine causing cancer, but that is plausible. Other viruses are known to cause cancer. In fact, the first known cause of cancer was the sarcomavirus, and human papilloma virus causes ~ 70% of all cervical cancer.
To state that we know the causes of cancer is misleading. Some cancers are cuased purely by specific mutations that are passed on (such as retinoblastoma), which others require a cascade of events and mutations involving multiple genesto occurs. While some genes have been associated with an increased risk of cancer, they are not the sole cause. For example, the BRCA1 gene is associated wiht breast cancer, yet it is only found in 5% of breast cancer patients. We do know many chemicals and toxins that can cause cancer, but the biology of how they cause cancer is still not understood.
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Yes, cancer is very multi-faceted (sp) and it takes a degree almost to understand all the ins and outs of it, however, if we know that chemicals cause it, you’d think that as humans, we’d ban chemicals, but we don’t. We make up some random “well if you only use this much you’ll be fine” argument based on some half baked study by people being paid to find a safe amount and we call that science.
I am sorry about your son, that must have been very frightening.
I feel the same way about my one year old getting JRA.
If vaccines are perfect or risk free, and if they are triggering up to 31 known autoimmunity disorders that can literally cripple or kill you — then what have we gained?
I’ll take a two week case of whooping cough or measles over arthritis any day. THe diseases that we’ve been brainwashed to believe are killers, weren’t.
Anyway, I gotta run and get my daughter from volleyball, but I beg you, before you vaccinate yourself, your wife or your children again to start reading books just like The Virus and the Vaccine.
Best.
long day's journey into acceptance
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Caveat: Careful befriending “Mary”. She’ll post your private medical information on the internet for all to see. Nice.
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:22 pm
BTW, here’s my opinion on the HPV vaccine –
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/12/EDGC7N734I1.DTL&hw=MaryAnna+Clemons&sn=001&sc=1000
It’s another marketing scheme to make money. Plain and simple, imo.
Mike H
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:22 pm
Mary,
I agree, we have a catch 22. Let’s call a truce.
I also saw the report about TV causing autism, and I fell on the floor laughing. I guess we can agree on some things.
I am sorry that your child was injured by a vaccine. As I said, I do agree that vaccines are not perfect or risk free.
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:24 pm
I have more than one best friend, and you’re right it probably wasn’t very nice to post that.
She knows what caused her issues, and she is okay with her choices, my point was simply that as adults, humans, parents, breeding women of all ages, we ingest things that are dangerous to the babies we plan to make, or have made.
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Mike — deal.
;)
long day's journey into acceptance
Sep 19, 2007 at 10:29 pm
“triggering up to 31 known autoimmunity disorders”
Citations for this, please!
“you’d think that as humans, we’d ban chemicals”
Ban “chemicals”? Really? Maybe “humans” know a little something you don’t.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Sep 19, 2007 at 11:23 pm
Back to autism: As kids grow up and into adults, it’ll be interesting to see if interest in vaccines and autism lessens, and more attention is paid to what’s needed: Teaching our kids to live good lives.
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 11:23 pm
Ahh yes, the natural chemical argument. Ok, let’s be more specific, you’d think we would ban CANCER Causing chemicals that only benefit corporations.
Citations for the autoimmunity disorders, read any book on autoimmunity, especially books written by the people that actually have the disease, and you’ll notice a recurring issue of vaccines.
My own daughter’s arthritis can be linked directly to her MMR shot. In addition, if you go to the MMR manufacturers (I don’t have time to google it again) you’ll see on the pharma insert that arthritis is LISTED as a condition that can occur after the MMR shot.
You believe what you want, and I’ll believe what’s right in front of my face………..
Mary
Sep 19, 2007 at 11:26 pm
I would rather teach corporations to care about what they produce that harms others.
Like the Mexican mothers picking fruit and vegetables in California whose babies are born with birth defects, autism and learning disorders due to the chemicals they come in contact with every day. They have little choice and almost no voice.
Cliff
Sep 20, 2007 at 12:40 am
I’ve got to be a little careful in saying anything here, because it seems people are very… involved.
My autism (not in terms of the diagnosis, but that there was a serious difference) was identified far earlier than my vaccinations (within the month, conservatively), and there was little of anything to suggest chemically anything happened. My genetics, however, could likely be traced (mostly on my Dad’s side). But there wasn’t anything chemically odd.
Now, what I want to ask is why genetics, without a trigger, can’t explain autism. Depending on the structure regarding the nature of being recessive or dominant, and in various ways, it really could have been introduced and increased by that means in the way that would be called “epidemic”, and it still could be possible if the
“rise” in autism is largely just an issue of social consciousness.
I don’t see, on the other hand, how vaccines are responsible if the vaccination rates go down and the autism rates go up. Shouldn’t that imply the independence of the two? Less triggers, more autism? Or why would autism still go up? (I’m not exactly a statistician, so these are not rhetorical; I’m actually asking these questions).
What’s interesting, though, if you could compare genetic tests with vaccination records. If we have a number of parents who have taken the same vaccination, have the genetic basis for autism, and yet are not autistic, we’d have a pretty good basis for saying vaccine isn’t any kind of “trigger” for autism, and likewise with autistic parents who have had the same vaccine. You might even go so far to give a parent the vaccine, if you wanted to stomp right over an ethical line.
Now, there are some other sticky things here. I’ve never been convinced always by mainstream science, preferring logic flow. The other thing, though, is this universal appeal to “common sense”. What part of autism appeals directly to common sense? Why would something that, in several ways, defies typical social understanding be judged on typical social understanding?
I’m not being personal, and I’m interested in hearing from everyone and every side involved, but these are several questions I had for the posters, whom I have come to enjoy reading.
Cliff
Mary
Sep 20, 2007 at 1:17 am
So, Cliff, if I”m understanding your right, you’re saying you never had any vaccinations before being diagnosed?
How about your mother?
I guess for me — and I am no statician either, I don’t believe it’s better diagnosing and I don’t believe it’s genetic because it’s the first time in the history of humans that we’ve been confronted with such an epidemic of one type of condition - other than cancer, which I also liken to vaccine use.
The sub categories of both autism and cancer are many and varied, and almost as soon as you think you “may” have wrapped your head around either one, you’re thrown off by someone’s new “study” or claim.
I really, truly contend that we don’t know as much as we think we know. We are simply as naive and clumsy as the caveman appears to us. We are walking in a dark room without a light, yet ego, the great EGO, makes most humans THINK they know all there is to know, such as our esteemed scientists.
We don’t.
I think as soon as we realize that it’s not just one thing and let go of our egos and assumptions (including myself) then we can truly start seeing life for what it is and what it isn’t.
And no, I”m not a tree hugging liberal………just in case my rambling sent anyone in that direction. I’m not a right wing, God makes everything go around person either……
I give, but you asked some good questions cliff and you jumped in, so I thought I’d take a few minutes to give my two cents before bed!@
Cliff
Sep 20, 2007 at 1:55 am
Not for my mother, either, any time during the pregnancy, though perhaps much earlier in life.
I have another question, then; there is current thought that the lighter of color skin was a genetic aspect that was introduced (via mutation) into a population, and because it happened to be a dominant, completely spread throughout that population (I need to find the referent, read it a while back). Similar might be the decrease in blue eyes in favor of darker colors like brown. In what ways would autism be different and why? There might be other examples I’m not thinking of, but that comes to mind.
I am in agreement regarding the fact that we assume things and do not know all that we really might. I suppose, though, that we can only try and question what we believe and understand, and come through with a personal answer because, in the end, that’s all we have.
Oh, I hadn’t I assumed anything about your politics!
I’m interested in your answers.
Cliff
Cliff
Sep 20, 2007 at 5:47 am
Actually, I need to clarify. I wasn’t diagnosed until I was three. But, almost at birth (saying at birth is complicated) I showed extreme sensitivity to sensory input (physically flinched whenever going under a light, a feat when there isn’t much muscle strength to speak for), and I was also not receptive to social interaction, all of which was recorded before vaccination.
passionlessDrone
Sep 20, 2007 at 8:52 am
Hi Mike H -
“Fombonne, E, et al. “Pervasive developmental disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: prevalence and limks with autism.” Pediatrics, 2006 July; 118(1):139-150.
Uchiyama, T, et al. “MMR vaccine and regressive autism spectrum disorders: negative results presented from Japan.” J. Autism Dev. Disord. 2007, February; 37(2):210-217″
These studies appear to show a lack of association between the MMR and autism rates; but this is a far, far cry from showing:
“Other studies have looked at vaccinated and non-vaccinated populations living in the same city and found no difference in the incidence of Autism. ”
The controls in the studies you cited had plenty of vaccines; just no MMR.
Thanks though!
- pD