Too much tragedy: Student charged in fatal stabbing of classmate
A 16-year-old special education student, John Odgren, has been charged with killing a 15-year-old classmate, James Alenson, by stabbing him at least twice this morning at Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School in Massachusetts. Odgren has Asperger’s syndrome and “no history of violence,” as his lawyer, Jonathan Shapiro, said. According to today’s Metrowest Daily News:
Prosecutor Daniel Bennett said Odgren admitted to school officials he killed Alenson.
“He was in the principal’s office and he said, ‘I did it, I did it,’ ” Bennett said.
WFMY2 News noted that, according to the police report, “Odgren asked police, ‘Is he OK?’ He told them, ‘I don’t want him to die.’”
Odgren has entered a plea of not guilty and is being held without bond out of the general population at the Middlesex Jail in Cambridge.
Related Stories
POSTED IN: Asperger's Syndrome, Crime
65 opinions for Too much tragedy: Student charged in fatal stabbing of classmate
Autism Vox » Sure, there’s an autism epidemic (but watch your words)
Jan 20, 2007 at 4:35 am
[…] This post begins in utero and ends with the topic of why there is no autism epidemic, with mention of the 5th-century Greek physician Hippocrates (as in the Hippocratic Oath) along the way, all in an attempt to make sense of the past week (a week which has ended, more than sadly, with a terrible, terrible tragedy involving a high school student with Asperger’s syndrome) in Autismland. Autism is not only every day, it is everywhere, in the news and, as I wrote on January 18th, there is plenty to talk about—autism as understood in other countries and at other times, and the extent to which we have reason to be optimistic about how much more we know about autism, and how much we can do. […]
Daisy
Jan 20, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Interesting — I saw a followup article on this event in my local newspaper that never mentioned Asperger’s.
John
Jan 20, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Just last week, the Boston Globe had an immensely interesting and positve Asperger’s story. As someone who has had a lot of experience with the way Massachusetts Public Schools deals with Asperger’s children, I am watching this with great interest on my own blog. I find myself reading between lines in the skimpy news reports.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jan 21, 2007 at 12:52 pm
I’ve been trying to do the same—your commentary makes a lot of good points that are, unfortunately being overlooked. Hope it’s all right to quote some:
Autism Vox » A Serious Disability: Asperger’s to be used as defense by Odgren’s attorney
Jan 21, 2007 at 10:21 pm
[…] Says Jamie Freed, a social worker with the Asperger’s Association of New England. Freed is quoted in an article in today’s Boston Herald in which attorney James Shapiro noted at an arraignment that his client, 16-year-old John Odgren, has Asperger’s Syndrome. On Friday morning, Odgren fatally stabbed 15-year-old James F. Alenson at Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School. The Boston Herald article notes that Asperger’s is “a mild form of autism that has helped win acquittals for defendants in 22 U.S. criminal cases since 2002, according to the Autism Society of America. Two cases are mentioned, that of a man with Asperger’s who was acquitted in the killing of his neighbor in Texas in 2003 and of James Boyd III of Missouri, whose conviction of first-degree murder was overturned due to jurors’ not being allowed to hear of his Asperger’s diagnosis. […]
Amy
Jan 22, 2007 at 3:55 pm
The use of Asperger’s as a cause/excuse/contributing factor/mitigating circumstance in the awful murder at L-S appalls me. As most folks familiar with A-S people in the real world know, they are rule followers. Bring a large knife to school with apparent intent? Come on! As a 2001 BBC report noted, the autism society in Britain states that Asperger’s Syndrome as a diagnosis is not connected to criminal behavior. I doubt that has changed, despite 22 cases in the U. S.!
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jan 22, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Thanks, Amy. It will be interesting (I don’t know if that’s quite the right word) to follow what happens.
Miss X
Jan 23, 2007 at 10:00 pm
To Everyone who would like to excuse John’s behavior please remember that James’ family will never share another hug, another holiday, another smile, another anything, because John Odgren “didn’t mean to kill him”. For the record, I did at one point in my career work with John, and he absolutely knows the difference between write from wrong. I worked with him in middle school and at that stage his parents didn’t want him to be labeled as anything even though he very clearly had HUGE behavioral problems. John is an extremely bright young man and his parents wanted him to embrace a love of learning. By chance they enrolled him at another school that held classes on Saturdays, where I had taught for years. His behavior there was so bad he was told he was never to return to that school. With all of these early warning signs his parents still did not do what tey should have. They delayed the diagnosis and the help John should have gotten. Unfortunately I do not think there is any rehabilitation for him, and I do not think any of this is connected to his Asperger’s. Asperger’s does not include violent tendencies. If I could I would also press charges against the parents who at the time fully realized their son had Asperger’s and enrolled him in a CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION class at a local college. For a child that gets fixated on things… Very poor choice…. Maybe next time they could enroll him in what happens when i kill someone course… Thank you Mr. and Mrs. Odgren for killing two children that day. Your son and more improtatly James.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jan 23, 2007 at 10:34 pm
For myself, I seek most of all to understand how it happened, and how this terrible tragedy might have been prevented—how things could have been different, and James still alive. Thank you very, very much.
Victor
Jan 24, 2007 at 3:14 am
I just wanted to weigh in on this unfolding event. For starters I have Aspergers syndrome. People say it is a disability others say its just a brain malfunction ect ect…. you get the picture. I get sick and tired of Aspergers being used as a defense. This kid did wrong and had to pay the price. I can understand schoolroom fights, but this went too far. If I go rob a bank or rape a child, would my aspergers syndrome having caused me to do it. My answer is no and it is no. It’s your free will. Aspergers syndrome is way to overplayed and is used as a scapegoat by psyciatrists, lawyers, judges and any other authority figure to get you off the hook. Not only that…. but the endless help and medication that most of us Aspies dont need. We dont need it. I can tell you for a fact that this kid has something much worse than AS. Either Bi-Polar or Scizophrenia. Possibly the medication he was on. Meds are bad stuff unless needed in severe cases, Myself, for example. I can understand sarcasm and body language. Get along great with women and have had psysical encounters with them. I have refrained from sex until marriage now personally. I have been told I am a great conversationlist and I think I am very astute. I have never blown up or had violent episodes. Except a fight I was in that I didnt start. Other than that, nothing. All the “CLASSIC” symptoms void. My medication and other things I stopped a long time ago. But I still have AS. The mental health community wants to coddle us. Make us soft. Want us to take dest jobs. The media making us look like we are completely insane. Like we cant take care of ourselves. We are limited in this society us aspies. We cant take the type of jobs we want, are haggled on what friends to get, how to live our lives by a suit with a PHd. People with AS would make great Policemen, Firemen, Military, Doctors, Paramedics. Why these fields? We like routine and order. These would be out perfect Jobs. I want to become a Rabbi personally. People with AS would be great fathers of wives to their children. Why Great fathers and mothers? Because we can understand and empathize more with them and what they are felling. People with AS can generally smell bs when it hits them in the face. Finally because we are different. Not normal. No one is normal. NOBODY! And in closing. Also sorry for getting a little off topic here. Back to my final point. This kid is in the wrong. His AS should be no defense. Why did he not go to the principal or his counselor. We all think of doing grotesque things one point or another in our lives. He should have resolved this through the school and his counselor he was seeing if he had one. And if convicted in a court of law. He should serve his time with the rest of ‘em. Aspergers or no Aspergers. Sorry for the long rant. If you want to respond, you know what to do.
Victor
Autism Vox » Responses to What Happened Last Friday in a Mass High School
Jan 24, 2007 at 1:36 pm
[…] The death of 15-year-old James Alenson, who was stabbed by his 16-year-old classmate, James Odgren, last Friday, has brought to light some very difficult questions, about violence, about the use of Asperger’s syndrome as a defense, about the use of psychiatric medications for children. I certainly do not have answers; I don’t know if there are answers. I hope that something can be learned from all this. […]
Outlook
Jan 24, 2007 at 2:19 pm
For background on the Wachusett District special education department, which placed John at Sudbury, visit http://www.PrincetonOutlook.com for a three-part series. The site is free.
Club 166
Jan 24, 2007 at 2:46 pm
I would like to make 3 points.
First, what most people who work in high risk industries (nuclear power plants, airline crews, medicine, etc.) realize is that when a “critical incident” occurs, it is often a “systems fault” as much if not more than it is an individual’s fault. We do not know the entirety of facts that surround this case (and probably never will). Did Odgren have a co-diagnosis of ADHD or other disorders? Was there a history of bullying (psychological as welll as physical) of Odgren? Did school administrators have opportunity to see warning signs and fail to act on them (good luck getting them to admit that)?
The above is not meant to “excuse” Odgren, or remove any responsibility from him. But if it’s the case that he was thrown into a situation where he was abused and no one else helped him, would we blame him as much for defending himself?
Second point. Victor is right that Asperger’s doesn’t contain any criteria for violent behavior. And that we should fight any media attempt to equate being on the autism spectrum with violent behavior. His point that there is a variable penetrance of symptoms with a diagnosis of Asperger’s is also well taken.
But if he had ADHD, which does include impulsivity, and his inherent Asperger’s made him less able to interpret the verbal and non-verbal signs given out by the other student which led up to the confrontation, then is he wholly culpable? To Odgren, the fight may have come out of nowhere, and he may have felt totally overwhelmed, and fighting for his life.
Finally, Miss X may be very upset because of her closeness to the case, but to rip into the parents (who are way outnumbered as-and often the least listened to-members of the IEP team) without equally ripping into others (teachers, social workers, physicians, even herself) who have seen his behavior being so bad, but have not intervened themselves to put him into a proper environment with the proper supports is grossly unfair. Also, her statement that she does not think there is any rehabilitation for him seems to indicate, at the very least, a gross misunderstanding of what can be accomplished with a combination of medicines, behavioral therapy, and psychotherapy.
Amy
Jan 24, 2007 at 6:27 pm
Club 166 is right that an ADHD (co-)diagnosis would make the behavior more clear. I think the Globe mentioned that’s the case. Even without A-S, many ADHD kids have social problems. Why does everyone want to make it about A-S? Because too many of their own kids have AD(H)D??? Because it’s exotic?
However, I have trouble believing Odgren thought the fight “came out of nowhere” when all indications are HE was the one with the knife!
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jan 24, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Thank you to all who have commented here—-I would like to say more, but I am still trying to understand all of this. So many issues are raised, from the concerns about the medications, to students with various diagnoses in public schools, to the kinds of supports they are getting or not getting.
I can say, the more I read, the more the tragedy of it all stands out. How many are now looking back at what might have been “warning signs,” in terrible hindsight?
Club 166
Jan 24, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Perhaps I should clarify, as indeed, it would not make sense on the face of it that someone would appear to be simultaneously prepared for a fight and surprised when it happened.
Again neither I, nor anyone else here, has ALL the facts of the case. So what I am saying is conjecture from what we do know.
Many kids that are different in any way get bullied (whether they are on the spectrum or not). If kids are bullied and no one seems to do anything about it, then over time some kids (again, whether on the spectrum or not) will try to take measures to defend themselves. Kids of all types often make bad decisions. Sometimes this involves doing things like taking a knife or gun to school in order to “scare” the person or persons that are bullying them, without any intent to cause harm.
Kids that have sensory integration problems often have a hard time processing information that is coming at them quickly. People with ADHD often interrupt others and can appear “rude” or confrontational to NT people.
So I can easily envision a scenario where someone bullies a person with ADHD and AS, and that person, because of a combination of misreading intent and getting verbally “in the other person’s face” inadvertantly escalates the situation. The situation then becomes physical, and the person with the knife pulls it out hoping to “scare” the other person away. At this point the other person, having always sensed “weakness” in the person that was bullied, launches into a full on physical assault. This further disorients the person with the knife, who now slashes out randomly, and unfortunately gets “lucky” and kills the other person.
I have no idea if that is what happened. But without more facts, I am more inclined to believe that the person with Asperger’s and ADHD was caught in a situation he didn’t fully understand with a weapon that he shouldn’t have had, and accidently inflicted grievous harm on another, rather than that he was actively out trying to kill someone.
shan
Jan 24, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Victor- While it’s true AS is not related to violent and/or criminal behaviors… It is not true that bipolar and schizophrenia are. Saying they are worse, that people who have those disorders instead of yours are the ones who are actually scary, does no good to anyone. Nothing gets done by shifting the blame to people stuck in the same system. As I am both bipolar and autistic, I assure you that it is just as bad to hear people blaming things on one as on the other. It is certainly a more complicated issue than that.
Amy
Jan 24, 2007 at 10:41 pm
Indications are that James, the boy who was murdered, was not a bully He was also SPED. Kids at his prior school described him as quiet. John, on the other had, was known as someone obsessed with violence, and considered a frightening character at L-S. Yes, there might have been bullies causing problems. That doesn’t mean (especially since we don’t know the entire situation) that James was one of them.
Club 166
Jan 24, 2007 at 11:19 pm
“Indications are that James, the boy who was murdered, was not a bully He was also SPED. …”
Well, there goes my theory.
But my heart still goes out to BOTH families. I think that most times there ARE warning signs that aren’t heeded, and proper support and safety plans that aren’t implementd, for purely financial reasons. And then ALL the blame is placed on the individual, instead of looking at the significant role that a dysfunctional system played in the matter.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jan 25, 2007 at 3:24 am
This is in the January 25th Boston Herald:
Miss X
Jan 25, 2007 at 3:27 am
As a response to Club 166- I am “ripping” into his parents for a reason. They were of no help. In the situation we were in there was no question we did the best we could and there is no doubt in my mind about that. My job never intailed cxhasing after a child in the woods and fiels of Princeton because he ran away, but did I do it? Yes I did. Was I close to John? yes. But don’t think for a minute I feel bad for him. i myself hae quite recenty taken and do take psychiatric drugs, and in fact went to McClean Hospital in Belmont. Now for the record I am not sure what your educational backgroungd is, but i have three majors. Elementary education (passing all Massachussetts testing), Human growth and Development, and Psycology. Iand I myself have a mood disorder. So I know and am aware of Asperger’s and ADHD. Neither is a cause for someone to brutally murder a classmate. I have to take several mediacations for my mood disorder, do they have side effects, yes. Does that give me the right to go and kill someone? NNNNOOOOO. John took a class on crime scene investigation involving blood spatter, etc. (asperger’s are prone to hyperfocus on one thing/thought). John brought a large knife to school. John was in the bathroom in the early morning before school began. John stabbed a younger, smaller student than him. John stabbed him two times in the abdomen. one of the two times in the HEART. Then saying he didn’t mean to hurt the other boy. And to top it all of, he had his Miranda Rights in his pocket for christ;s sake! So Club 166 whoever you are I called the police as soon as I heard so I could tell them everything I knew, so they could get a fuller picture. I do not blame myself. Is the system dysfunctional. Yes, but that is because the Educational system in MA is run by Republicans who keep cutting back. There are no signs that our schools are stepping forward, and I can do nothing to help that. I have no sympathy for the Odgrens. If they cared as much as they say they did they would have pulled John out and put him in that great school right away (they have the $). Then they could have been reimbursed by the district, but they chose to wait.
OUT OF ALL OF THIS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONES ARE JAMES AND HIS FAMILY. THEY DID NOTHING TO DESERVE THIS AND WERE BLINDSIDED. MAYBE SOMEDAY HE ODGREN’S WILL FEEL EVEN A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE PAIN THE ALENSON’S DO, BUT I DOUBT IT.
Miss X
Jan 25, 2007 at 3:46 am
I also forgot to add that I don’t think there is much rehabilitation for him for a few reasons. I have seen his behavior in action. I have seen him being asked to leave special “Saturday Classes”. I also know first hand that McClean Hospital is (I’m venturing to guess) the best on the east coast if not the country. It is a Harvard affiliated teaching hospital, and if they can’t help you there, I would be pretty worried. Personally I also don’t think that John would actually commit to any psycotherapy and actually try to make himself better. He is very stubborn and wants his own way. I go to a shrink and take my meds and no one would ever know I had problems. So I also have my reasons for saying that. And again I don’t want someone out of prison any earlier because they have a mental defect. If anything I want them in there longer and with more supervision.
Club 166
Jan 25, 2007 at 9:58 am
“… OUT OF ALL OF THIS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONES ARE JAMES AND HIS FAMILY. THEY DID NOTHING TO DESERVE THIS AND WERE BLINDSIDED. …”
I totally agree. All of us deserve to feel comfortable that we are sending our children off to a safe environment.
What I have a problem with is whenever a 15 year old is automatically tried as an adult for murder, because the public assumes that there is the same intent present in a 15 year old as there is in an adult.
Kids (all kids) just don’t think like adults. 15 year olds don’t view death the same way adults do. It they did, they never would engage in all the risky behavior they do.
Now take the normal atypicality of a 15 year old’s brain, and add someone with a diagnosis of ADHD (up to half of whom in some studies also carry a diagnosis of ODD) and possibly OCD and you have a recipe for trouble. As well as a person who (in my opinion) is not totally responsible for their actions if he is not on the proper meds and receiving proper supervision and supports.
In retrospect perhaps the parents probably could have done more. But many people trust that the doctors and caretakers who work with their kids will know best.
And though we are all frustrated at various times, I always want to feel as if there is SOMETHING each one of us can do (write a letter to the editor, call your legislator, raise community awareness, vote).
I wish you well, Miss X.
Autism Vox » Today is James Alenson’s Funeral
Jan 25, 2007 at 1:19 pm
[…] The funeral service for 15-year-old James Alenson, who died last Friday after being stabbed by 16-year-old James Odgren, is today. Amy noted in a commented that “Indications are that James, the boy who was murdered, was not a bully He was also SPED. Kids at his prior school described him as quiet.” […]
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jan 25, 2007 at 1:33 pm
I do think there is always something we can do, even if our efforts seems small and futile. Odgren is only 16—–Alenson was only 15—-and Odgren has his life ahead of him, and while I wish that were true for Alenson too, it’s an understatement to say that things are not going to be easy for Odgren.
Miss X
Jan 26, 2007 at 12:18 am
I do hope that on this day the Alenson’s can find some peace, even though that is not likely. Today is about their son, and thinking hopeful thoughts for them. Hoping that they never forget the beauty of the smile on their young son’s face.
Autism Vox » State Report Provides Details of Odgren
Jan 26, 2007 at 1:38 am
[…] 16-year-old John Odgren, who is accused of fatally stabbing 15-year-old James Alenson in a bathroom in Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School last Friday did not understand the “effect of his behavior on others,” according to a decision by the Massachusetts state Bureau of Special Education Appeals in 2003 referred to in an article in the January 23rd Boston Globe. A pseudonym, “Galen,” is used to refer to Odgren in the report, the Boston Globe and the Sudbury Town-Crier both note. […]
Kassiane
Jan 26, 2007 at 3:09 am
Miss X, when your meds fail, and they will, should you be locked up indefinately? (and they ALWAYS fail.)
Secondly, I for one am extraordinarily irritated at your gross mischaracterization of people on the autism spectrum and our hyperfocus. Mood disorder is generally though not always euphanism for bipolar. Next time you get hypomanic bet you hyperfocus. But it won’t be on the first thing you see. I took math. Never hyperfocused on that. Took a crime scene class. Never hyperfocused on that. Took a graphic design class. Never hyperfocused on that.
Nope. I hyperfocused on things my parents never would have dreamed of, mom and dad don’t pick the interests, the interests pick the autistic.
The killing is tragic, but guess what?
THERE’S NO WAY OF KNOWING IF THE VICTIM WAS A BULLY.
The child who stabbed isn’t talking, apparently, and the child who is dead isn’t either. And NT kids (even those in special ed, who are not autistic) are damn good at pretending to be sweet and innocent when adults are around and then being the most vile creatures on earth as soon as they’re unsupervised. It may have been constant, it may have been one thing too far, but I do not believe for an instant that bullying in some form didn’t have anything to do with this.
And until you have gone to school as the ‘weird’ ’socially retarded’ (as they called me) kid who got in trouble for defending themselves while kids tortured you, frankly you have no right to pass judgement.
Your meds WILL fail one day. Hope you don’t get a judge as judgemental as you.
Miss X
Jan 26, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Dear Little Miss Kassiane,
My meds don’t fails because I continue to see my doctor on a regular basisand I pay out of pocket for it. My insurance does not even cover it. As for being Bi- polar I am not, but thank you for your opinion. You may be all screwed up in the head (sounds like up might need some time in the clinck) but until you are done med school I don’t care for your opinion. My doctor is qualified as a brain sergon, a forensic psychiatrist, and a psychiatrist. He also works for the Brittish Royal Air Force as a consultant, I doubt he would care what you had to to say either. You sound like someone who is still angry about high school. I am stating the facts. People with Asperger’s can tend to get hyperfocused on one subject. If you don’t know that maybe you should do some reasearch. And I will agree that there is no way of being positive if the other child was a bully, but all indications so far are saying that he is not. Even if he was he doesn’t deserve to be stabbed to death by someone because they are mentally ill. If you are excusing this for being a bullying issue, then you would be excusing almost all cases of shootings in schools. Columbine, Lovejoy High, and the best one yet in Osaka, Japan where a man killed 8 young children by stabbing them to death, but wished hee had used gasoline and set theem on fire “because I could have killed more of them”. Not to mention the even more recent shootings in Amish Counrty. And just for the sake of replying, I never made any comment specifically about autistic people.
And from your ranting and raving at the end of your writing I can’t get much more than the fact that you are weird and socially retarted and can’t get over it and haven’t been able to get the right drugs or doctor you are going to continue to sulk.
You also need to remember I worked with this child and knew him one on one. YOU DID NOT. So get off you high horse, go back to high school and learn some social skills. Please for the sake of us all.
GET A LIFE- I will never need a judge because I know things like right and wrong and that stabbing someone in the heart is a BAD thing, just like John knew. He might not relize he has to spend the next fourty years in prison, but I’m ok with that.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jan 26, 2007 at 10:40 pm
I continue to not know what to think about all this—-I certainly feel a lot, as the mother of an autistic boy (and one who, I think, does best in a self-contained setting where he has lots of supervision). Needless to say, Odgren’s stabbing of Alenson is no easy thing to understand, much less to write about, and, with ranting and raving and more—because these are terrible subjects to discuss, are they not?, but they need to be discussed—I hope we can continue this discussion so that it will not happen again.
Kassiane
Jan 27, 2007 at 2:07 am
Aspergers=form of autism.
I don’t give a rat’s heiney who your doctor is. I’ve seen some good ones. I’m autistic. You have no way of knowing how old or young I am without a websearch (and yes, a google will turn up predominately me in English). But if you do THAT then you know I know how to research. And you know I know how to read psych research.
Prove the dead kid wasn’t a bully. And stop putting words in my mouth.
Or else go back to your high and mighty doctor and tell him you hear words that aren’t there, because no one said that AS excuses anything. I didn’t even say being bullied excuses it. I DO say that you have an unnerving prejudice. I DO say you are trolling, which isnt fair to Kristina.
Your argument is that a ‘mental illness’ (which autism isn’t) is a good reason to lock someone up. So go back to the hospital if you believe that.
And if you don’t believe in medication poop out, YOU need to do some research. I’ve already got some CMEs on the very subject.
Miss X
Jan 27, 2007 at 7:38 am
…”but I do not believe for an instant that bullying in some form didn’t have anything to do with this.”…
…”Prove the dead kid wasn’t a bully. And stop putting words in my mouth”…
Your words in the second half of your second statement seem to discredit you entirely. Not only that, you seem to be forgeting that Asperger’s is a very mild form of Autism. Maybe I do have an “Unervving prejudice” because I grew up witha manic depressive mother, and any mental heath care professional will tell you they are generally terrible parents. So I’mwondering if this happened to you too… And if it did you certainly haven’t delt with that. But all of that anger you keep pent up inside… not good… see, in a setting like middle school, it is the teachers job to teach them how to pass state tests, how to live with each other and hopefully like each other, and then you throw a soccially inept child into the mix, like yourself, and look what happens.
But getting back to mental illness. Do I believe that if someone has an illness like John seems to have (with violent tendencies (even manic depression) and they decide to stop taking their medications, shoud they be locked up. Yes Abosolutely. It is not fair that society has to deal with people that like you, who seem to be so pent up with rage, and at any moment, could hurt someone, should be amoung the rest of us.
I did not see you respond to the part about excusing all of the other massacares that have gone on at plenty of schools not only around the country, but the world. Which is yet another thing that looms over our heads.
I take it you are maybe schizophrenic. Are you Kristina, and refering to yourself in the third person?…Very nice…I think you spend way to much time worrying about the guilty in this case than the obvious innocent. Are you even aware that there was another child in the bathroom at the time?
I can also see why you were (and are) a social outcast that is not even capable of trolling. You refer to the victim here as “the dead kid”. …On the day of his funeral. Nothing says ASSHOLE more than that. His name was JAMES ALENSON, try to remember that, for a change.
And coming from crazy ass you, I really don’t care what you say about any mediacal research. I’m sure it was dome in the ward of some state hospital.
;)
Donna
Jan 27, 2007 at 4:56 pm
A couple of things have caught my attention in that sometimes what is important is not in the newsfeed, i.e. James Alenson’s dxes. We know he was in Sp Ed. What we don’t know is what was the type of classroom both students were in or were they in seperate classrooms and maybe they were in a mainstream class together. Are there autistic support classrooms (extremely common on the east coast) vs. SED classroom type settings.
What if both were on the spectrum? What is unsaid in all the newsfeeds and privacy to family, siblings and other kids in the classroom could support both were spectrum–maybe just at different parts of the spectrum? Possibly explains why nothing is really known about the victim because he wasn’t in as much inclusion type setting where other students got to know him.
Ton’s of children are bullied every year. Spectrumers are not and by far the only students being bullied. Bullying is a problem for many students and not just for those who have a dxes.
Donna
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jan 27, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Donna, thanks for making that point. I can only think that his family must be going through something awful right now; we will in time learn more about James’s too short life.
Miss X: I thank you again for commenting here regarding John Odgren; no one else has said they knew him. I hope we can all keep this discussion focused on Odgren and the too many issues the stabbing and death of Alenson have brought up—issues that can only evoke deeply felt emotions in all of us. I appreciate your input here and Kassiane’s very much. I do think that ad hominem comments about others’ neurological/psychological health etc. —- such as suggesting someone is schizophrenic—- are not useful in a thoughtful discussion. My policy on Autism Vox is not to censor comments because I think it important and, indeed, essential, for everyone to speak honestly, but (as is the policy in my college classroom), it is all the more imperative that everyone strive to be as respectful to each other as possible. I think it truly goes without saying that this particular topic under discussion in this post is one evoking a lot of feelings as I think it should—– we need most of all to keep on talking together and try to understand.
And I am very glad to hear any comments about all the above, here or via email.
Kassiane
Jan 27, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Miss X isn’t a professional anyway.
Simple logic.
Schizophrenia =/= multiple personalities.
Anyone who knows anything about autism (as anyone who works with autistic people would) knows MANY autistic people have trouble with names. Especially difficult when they both have the same first name and vowel last names. Pattern recognition folks are going to get tripped up.
Miss X is behaving trollishly, not professionally. She’s lucky this is Kristina’s blog, not my site, because if I had her IP I’d be notifying her place of business that she’s making a point of harrassing autistic people in her time off.
Oh. And making note that they should notify her psychiatrist. Miss X (anonymity-the coward’s cloak) alludes to being hospitalized. Perhaps her doctor would suggest another visit to Club Med. My doctors have never seen it as a requirement for me. I’m autistic, not someone who gets off on harrassing autistic people.
Nothing says ASSHAT like harrassing disabled people, ad hominem attacks, pretending to be something you aren’t, misuse of diagnostic labels as insults (not even well), and maligning a whole GROUP.
Are you Alison Singer? That would actually make sense in a sick way.
Donna
Jan 27, 2007 at 8:18 pm
I, too, feel sorry for both families. That’s what I noticed in reading all the feeds both families were respectful to each other, i.e, one not firing back a comment or a family firing a comment to the newsfeed or abstaining from commenting to the newsfeed. It’s almost a feeling that both families can understand what happened because of a mutual understanding of what “spectrum” is.
I am the parent of a 10 year old girly girl who is so full of bubbles and happy go lucky and loves her family dearly. Yes she is behind very academically and goes to a private autistic school only. Jaime would never hurt a fly. But yes a few times the school has called to let me know another student attacked (that is the word tho)her. Jaime was never really hurt bruised yes.
I didn’t go after the other student or want the other student disciplined or suspended. I understood autism and yes some autistics are agressive.
That is the message I got from all the newstories the last few days is that both parents have a true understanding of where the other family is coming from and I think the school just dosen’t know how to address this.
Both families have got to be hurting that is for sure.
Donna
PS, Think I like your autism vox blogs and might read some of the archives here. = ) Is it too late to add my thoughts to some of the stuff that is here. Prolly the best autism blog I have read and have read many. Congrats!
What’s a parent
Autism Vox » Shame and Stigma: On what happened on January 19th
Jan 27, 2007 at 8:58 pm
[…] A student at Lincoln-Sudbury High School where John Odgren fatally stabbed his fellow student James Alenson on January 19 has written a note to John Ritchie, the school’s principal: ““I am a student with a mild form of Asperger syndrome and I am scared that now everybody thinks I’m a violent person.” […]
Kristina Chew, PhD
Jan 27, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Donna, Thanks so much for providing this perspective about the two families—-can’t even begin to imagine what they must be feeling. My own son has had moments of aggression and has also been at the receiving end of some things—–in Charlie’s case, these things have happened out of frustration, inability to communicate, over-stimulation (Charlie does not have a lot of language), not from any motivation to harm and Charlie has been himself upset afterwards.
Glad to “meet” you and hope you’ll keep letting me know what you think of Autism Vox—-thanks for the very kind words!
Jenni
Jan 28, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Thank you Donna!!!
“My own son has had moments of aggression and has also been at the receiving end of some things—–in Charlie’s case, these things have happened out of frustration, inability to communicate, over-stimulation (Charlie does not have a lot of language), not from any motivation to harm and Charlie has been himself upset afterwards.”
Kristina, this also describes my Mike. He doesn’t have a malice bone in his body, and the times that he has shown aggression, you can pinpoint why. It must be a terrible feeling and extrememly difficult to deal with not to be able to communicate.
I find this extremely sad. And I am sure there will be enough blame to go around. As a parent, I often am clueless as to what the right thing to do is. Children, NT or AS, are all so diffrent in how they respond to diffrent pressures. For me, I just go with my gut and get advice from professionals and other parents. And pray. I feel desperately for both families. Like any child who slipped between the cracks or the adult who turned their head just for a second and something terrible happened. I think we are all human and I truly believe that most parents and most teachers I have been blessed to run into, as well as these innocent children,we all do the very best we can to adapt and live.
What went wrong with John? I don’t know him, and even if I did, even knowing him well, I don’t know that I would know. There is a broader picture that we don’t have the ability to see. Reasons things happen that we can’t wrap our puny minds around. But I feel that compassion and love and education are what is needed here. You may say, where is this the love for James?? Have no fear… he feels more love, compassion and understanding now than he ever has.
Jenni
Jan 28, 2007 at 4:26 pm
“What I have a problem with is whenever a 15 year old is automatically tried as an adult for murder, because the public assumes that there is the same intent present in a 15 year old as there is in an adult.
Kids (all kids) just don’t think like adults. 15 year olds don’t view death the same way adults do. It they did, they never would engage in all the risky behavior they do.”
I saw something on the Discovery channel that a teenagers brain is far different than an adult chemically. Hence why teenagers are so sporatic and so unpredicatble. Sure explains why I did some of the dumb things I did as a teenager!
I think what worries most people is that when tried as a child, can get out at 18 or 21. John seems to need more help and supervision afterwards than that. And help. Not prison.
hj
Jan 28, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Miss X = HIPPA Violation?
just wondering.
Donna
Feb 1, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Kids (all kids) just don’t think like adults. 15 year olds don’t view death the same way adults do. It they did, they never would engage in all the risky behavior they do.”
Here’s hoping the lawyer representing John knows and understands what PDD is. Especially that first D as in developmental!
Yes John is physically 15 years old. However, in some agreas he might be 12, another area he might be 14, another area he could be 19. That D is very important in understanding what autism is! Autism knowledge is knowing that the *developmental* age may and prolly is different from the person’s physical age.
So much emphasis currently in the autism community is focused on EI. And NO emphasis is on the age 21 when the autistic person ages out of the school years at a physical age of 21 but a developmental age of maybe 8 or 13 or 17 etc etc.
That first D is so misunderstood and overlooked withing the autism community itself.
Miss X
Feb 3, 2007 at 11:57 pm
hj- It is HIPAA, not HIPPA, check it out before threats my dear child.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 4, 2007 at 12:12 am
So much emphasis currently in the autism community is focused on EI. And NO emphasis is on the age 21 when the autistic person ages out of the school years at a physical age of 21 but a developmental age of maybe 8 or 13 or 17 etc etc.
Thanks so much for highlighting this—-it is not for every person with autism, but more than a few need supports of varying degrees for much longer than EI or the elementary years. —- Thanks also to Miss X for the correction and for your contributions to this discussion. I think you are referring to Kassiane?
Miss X
Feb 4, 2007 at 12:28 am
Ms. Chew- Glad you take the time to critisize me, have you looked at all of the writings others have posted that maybe I have taken offense to? Or does that not matter to you either?
And once again back to Little Miss Kassianne-
I really don’t care for this blogging site as, the people on it including those running it, can’t even control it. I am in no way against those who are autistic. I am against anyone who is metantally ill as John was, and not taking medication and seeking therapy for it. Plain and simple. I do not believe he should have less time in a prison than anyone else. I would never want him to be in school with my children. If you can honestly say that you would be okay with this child being in school with your child you are nuts. You need to get off your ranting and raving high horse because you know nothing about this child. John is n ot Autistic. His diagnosis is of Asperger’s. Which as I have stated many times before: He is very highy intellegent. He focuses intensely on a subject and can learn everything about it and knows it forever. He is however extremely lacking in social skills. Part of Aspergers is VERY MILD AUTISM. So mild in his case, you would not recognize it.
As a professional I care very deeply for the children I work for. But my care is for the children like James Alenson, that are the victims of school crimes, and all of the other students that could be affected as well.
The general public has no idea the stress that is put on teachers in the workplace. We have had parents stopped outside of our “open” campus school with a loaded gun, set to go shoot at his teacher. We have students come in with weapons and drugs everyday, and they need to be handled on a one on one basis. Because the kids I see now are in FIRST GRADE. Meaning they are six years old.
So I am confident in who I am, and confident that you all have no idea what this cxhild is really like. He does not beling in kitty palace. He belongs in prison. He stabbed a boy in the heart. that means he had to go around the sternum. Not the easiewst of things to do. The idea that his parents even had the balls to request he go to children’s hospital is repulsive. Anyway, I hope he likes the color orange, and he likes to wear jumpsuits, and likes big sweaty mean named Bubba.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 4, 2007 at 12:35 am
Miss X, thanks again. I did not think that I had criticized you and regret that anything I might have written was taken that way. I think it is important, and necessary, for this to be a community open to all, in which any opinions can be expressed. There is a lot of diversity of beliefs, and divisiveness, already in the autism community and I think, even if some difficult words are exchanged, that it is better to keep talking than to turn away from each other.
Again, thank you for writing and reading here.
Miss X
Feb 4, 2007 at 12:41 am
And a quote from your own web page definately makes you seem like you have a hidden agenda. Classroom teachers are there to teach individualized instruction to 25-30 regular ed students. We have Special education classes for children who fall outside of that scope. You need to take you anger out appropriately. “I just hate the way everyone is down on Rett girls. This applies to most disabilities, really, but I noticed it with Rett Syndrome in particular because RS is the only condition that makes any kind of sense in explaining my Cluster O’Stuff. I never fit into any of their standardized boxes and neither do any of these kids. As such, teachers, psychiatrists, psychologists, neurologists, occupational therapists, speech therapists, physical therapists, and a myriad of others of their ilk have no greater expectation than “will respond to her own name” in spite of the fact that they, the professional, are often too ignorant to know what an actual consistent response is!”
And contrary to what you may think I have never stayed at any mental hostpital in my life. I did spend years of my life growing up visiting my mother while she was in one. At least that way you can understand that yeah I’ve seen the worst people can go through, so I am not making fun, but am I harsh, most certainly. I wouldn’t want someone like you near my children either.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 4, 2007 at 12:54 am
Thanks again, Miss X.
Miss X
Feb 4, 2007 at 1:09 am
Wanted to bringt up another thing that makes you seem a little more obnoxious Kass-
You seem to have no symapathy for a dying middle school boy but what is this on your little 24 year old web site? You care more for little babies than boys, or is it that she had autism or was it a chance to take a stab at Ms. Singer? Girlie, move on, get over your anger, if you know so much about pharmachology and gentics, do something with your life instead of being annoying, please , to better society.
http://www.rettdevil.com/katiemccarron.html
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 4, 2007 at 1:21 am
Thanks again, Miss X. I have written a number of posts here too about Katie McCarron, whose loss is deeply, deeply mourned. In the interest of making this an open forum for all opinions, while I am very appreciative of receiving critiques of my own writing here, minimizing ad hominem remarks is also appreciated. Thanks again.
Miss X
Feb 4, 2007 at 1:41 am
Dr. Chew in looking through various websites i see that you and Kasianne have a relationship of some sort. Great. She has lots of disabilities your son has a disability. If you would take the time to read her comments you might begin to see that she is indeed a very rude person. Perhaps you didn’t read about the part where she is convinced that my meds are going to go bad and I am not professional. I recognize that the death of any person is tragic, but why is it ok, for a child to murder? IT IS NOT.
In the mean time I will say what I feel necessary, as Kass, is nothing but a hate monger. Plain and simple. people have attacked me since I started saying anything on here, and I have let it go.
Hopefully this reading will help:
Odgren’s blog: I might ‘channel’ video game thug
By Norman Miller/ MetroWest Daily News
Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - Updated: 07:33 AM EST
Teen murder suspect John Odgren was excited about turning 16 because he could buy hunting knives and drive, but he worried he’d act like a “Grand Theft Auto” video game fiend, according to what appears to be his myspace.com blog.
“I’m nervous I might begin to channel Tommy Vercetti,” Odgren wrote on his blog on Sept. 2, the day after his 16th birthday.
Tommy Vercetti is the name of the main character from the over-the-top video game “Grand Theft Auto: Vice City,” which features violent criminals, corrupt police officers, drug use and sex.
Odgren is charged with the Jan. 19 murder of James Alenson, 15. Prosecutors say he stabbed the 15-year-old boy in a bathroom at Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School with a large knife.
On his myspace.com page, Odgren, who calls himself “Jack,” said he was an aspiring stand-up comic and writer.
Several Lincoln-Sudbury students have said Odgren, who lives in Princeton, identified himself as Jack.
The last time Odgren logged onto the social networking Web site was Jan. 19, the day of the murder.
On his second blog entry, which was posted Jan. 9, he writes about the completion of a short story of “personal anguish, redemption and forgiveness.”
The blog’s title is, “How not to use an ice pick.”
The Web page is relatively bare. He talks about his favorite musicians, including Queen, Van Halen and Green Day. Odgren’s favorite movie is “Forrest Gump,” but he also lists “Halloween,” Sleepy Hollow,” “Terminator 2” and “Indiana Jones” movies among his top flicks. ”
“
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 4, 2007 at 1:46 am
Thanks for the links, Miss X. Yes, Kassiane was a speaker at an autism conferenced organized by my husband, Dr. James Fisher, in October 2006 in New York City. I have read your comments, as well as everybody else’s; my policy on this blog is not too censor any. Thank you again.
Miss X
Feb 4, 2007 at 1:53 am
Boston Globe:
State report describes teen’s early aggression
Suspect’s parents sought better help
By Maria Cramer, Globe Staff | January 23, 2007
In seventh grade, John Odgren had several explosive episodes, was verbally abusive, and at times became physically aggressive, his parents, specialists, and teachers said, according to a state hearing report.
Odgren, who is accused of fatally stabbing a fellow student Friday at Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School, did not understand the “effect of his behavior on others,” according to a decision by the state Bureau of Special Education Appeals in 2003.
His parents had argued to the state agency that their son needed better services than he had received from the Wachusett Regional School District, which had placed him in an alternative school in Fitchburg. At that school, he was so miserable he came home and “often spent evenings wrapped in a blanket, crying,” one of his parents testified.
The state agreed that the placement was not appropriate and ordered Wachusett to pay for Odgren’s attendance at a smaller program in Belmont that his parents had found.
The state report portrays a complex picture of Odgren, who has been charged with first-degree murder in the killing of 15-year-old James F. Alenson, a freshman at Lincoln-Sudbury. Odgren, 16, is depicted at age 12 as a highly intelligent but troubled preadolescent with poor social skills. He has a hyperactivity disorder and Asperger’s disorder, a mild form of autism. Several specialists familiar with Asperger’s have said that those with the condition are not more prone to violence than others.
The report, giving an overall description, said that Odgren became aggressive at times when confused or ordered to do work, but did not offer details other than to say he was suspended three times for physical aggression within a two-month period at Caldwell Alternative School in Fitchburg. His parents, at the same time, were expressing concern for his physical and emotional safety at Caldwell, whose principal declined to comment.
The report made one mention of him having “explosive episodes” in fall 2002 in Wachusett’s special education program, but did not detail those. Wachusett school officials declined to comment about Odgren, citing student confidentiality.
Odgren’s lawyer, Jonathan Shapiro, also declined to comment.
A pseudonym was used to describe Odgren in the state agency’s report on the case; a source with knowledge of the decision confirmed that the boy described in the report was Odgren.
Lincoln Waterhouse, Wachusett’s special education coordinator, was directly involved with Odgren’s case in 2002 and 2003. He declined to comment about Odgren during a brief telephone interview. Waterhouse, according to the state report, selected the Caldwell school for Odgren and testified that he thought the placement provided enough support to help the boy succeed.
“My heart goes out to everybody involved,” he said of the stabbing.
Odgren, according to the state report, was diagnosed with depression and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder in 2000 and later placed in a special education program at a Wachusett elementary school. In 2002, in the sixth grade, he was diagnosed with Asperger’s. His parents complained that he needed training in social skills, according to the state report, but never received it.
Shortly after beginning seventh grade in a Wachusett school, his performance deteriorated, according to the report, and the school system placed him at Caldwell Alternative School in Fitchburg for students in grades 7 to 12. The school serves students with emotional and behavioral problems and learning disabilities.
But he floundered at Caldwell, where the other students “teased, used foul and aggressive language, and were rude and disrespectful to each other and to the teacher,” according to the report. Odgren’s behavior grew more troubling, resulting in the suspensions and his failing three subjects.
In March 2003, his parents took him out of Caldwell and placed him at Pathways Academy in a special education program at McLean Hospital in Belmont for students ages 12 and 13. There, his behavior dramatically improved, the report stated.
Odgren told his parents the program was “like heaven.” His father testified that after about six weeks at Pathways, Odgren “demonstrated spontaneous empathy for the first time.”
It is unknown whether Odgren went directly from Pathways to Lincoln-Sudbury and whether school officials were made aware of the state report that described a history of physical aggression. Beginning this school year, he was a sophomore at Lincoln-Sudbury enrolled in Great Opportunities, a program for students with significant emotional and/or psychiatric disabilities. Lincoln-Sudbury officials have said they had no knowledge of any violent behavior involving Odgren.
John M. Ritchie, Lincoln-Sudbury regional’s principal and superintendent, told reporters yesterday that the school’s security policy and how it applies to Great Opportunities would probably be reviewed.
“We can’t explain everything at once when we’re in the middle of still grieving,” Ritchie said.
According to the state’s report, Odgren needed to be in an educational environment where he would not be threatened and would “be free from peers who tease, bully, or have behaviorally based disorders.”
In the days after the stabbing, Lincoln-Sudbury students told reporters that Odgren had been teased by schoolmates for wearing a trench coat in the halls like the killers in Columbine High School. Police have not said why Odgren allegedly stabbed Alenson, who was described as shy and sweet, in a boy’s bathroom.
Odgren’s mother , Dorothy, a nurse at a Worcester clinic, is a fierce advocate for her son, said Kathryn Mattison, a Princeton child and family therapist. Dorothy Odgren is a fixture at area conferences on Asperger’s, she said, adding that she met Dorothy Odgren when she was a school nurse at Princeton’s Thomas Prince Elementary School, which Mattison’s children attended.
“She’s a model parent in terms of trying to understand her son,” Mattison said. “I’m putting myself in their position. What would I have done differently? I don’t think I would have done anything differently.”
Yesterday, students, police, grief counselors, and parents gathered at the high school for the first time since the slaying. The students broke into spontaneous applause in the school auditorium, showing love for the school, Ritchie said. But the mood of the day was somber, Ritchie said.
School officials kept accessible the spot in the hallway where Alenson bled after the stabbing. Officials didn’t want the hallway to be a “taboo zone,” and school staff was stationed in the area to comfort students or accompany them into the restroom where Alenson was stabbed if they needed to see it.
John R. Ellement and Maria Sacchetti of the Globe staff and Globe correspondent Kristen Green contributed to this report. Maria Cramer can be reached at mcramer@globe.com.
Miss X
Feb 4, 2007 at 2:02 am
[Here’s the story on Odgren’s myspace page.]
[Here’s Odgren’s myspace page.]
[Here’s a letter to the editor from Odgren’s lawyer.]
Miss X
Feb 4, 2007 at 2:07 am
[Here’s the story on Odgren’s myspace page.]
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/homepage/8998969569724858366
[Here’s Odgren’s myspace page.]
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=106030590
[Here’s a letter to the editor from Odgren’s lawyer.]
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/opinion/8998969571201253375
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 4, 2007 at 2:07 am
Thank you for the links—-much appreciated.
Miss X
Feb 4, 2007 at 10:02 pm
More reading to keep people focused on the fact that we are talking about ASPERGER’S SYNDROME.
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/asperger/detail_asperger.htm
hindsight
Feb 5, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Too much bleating and vituperation here, but also many helpful and sympathetic comments. First, no one has offered AS as a defense in this case. Look at the court record. Odgren’s disbility and need for medications were presented in an attempt to hold him in a secure mental health facility rather than prison, which would make a great deal of sense under the curcumstances, but unfortunately was not approved.
Those who say this is (at the very least) a double tragedy are absolutely correct. There are surely many folks on the autism spectrum who justifiably worry that they may be tarred by the brush of this tragic event, which, sadly, is part of the “mob” mentality that hits people when something this terrible occurs. My hear goes out to them and their families and friends, and I hope sites like this and others can help the public to grasp that AS and an incident like this one are two completely different things.
Many, many families who have struggled to get help for disabled kids within the education system understand all too well how difficult that is. There are no roadmaps, there are often financial constraints on school districts, and every kid is a completely unique case. Parents struggle to understand what’s happeining, and to get the help their kid needs, but all by definition begin with no experience and a great deal of resistance.
Finally, MissX’s claim to have seen this coming somehow during her self-described “involvement” with Odgren - on, what, one or two Saturdays during his middle school years? flies in the face of an overwhelming amount of evidence. Odgren was diagnosed many years ago and was indeed on medications and under the care of experienced and knowlegable counselors, physicians, neurodevelopmental pediatricians, experts on AS, and special education professionals. His “outbursts” occurred in situations where they would be expected, in settings where he was being bullied and/or tormented. For God’s sake, clearly, NO ONE saw this coming. No educator or professional or parent would EVER place a kid with the potential for dangerous behavior where an innocent child would be at risk. NEVER! Get a clue! If MissX somehow saw this coming and did nothing, shame on her. If she is now stepping forward with 20-20 hindsight to gain visibility and a post-facto “I told you so,” for herself, shame on her for that, too.
As most posters on this site recognize, parents struggle mightily with these issues, often for their entire lives. To blame Odgren’s parents for this when they have so obviously been doing what every parent ought to do is so craven and vindictive that one wonders at MissX’s motives here.
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 5, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Hindsight, thanks for the thoughtful insights…….I hope that I might work to do what I can to “help the public to grasp that AS and an incident like this one are two completely different things.”
Miss X
Feb 5, 2007 at 6:02 pm
For Hindsight–
You are obviously someone who doesn’t read carefully or between the lines. I worked with Odgren every day for th first semester of his seventh grade year. So the first thing I suggest you do is go back and re-read. During the course of that same time he happened to enroll a a school and took some Saturday classes, that he was dismissed from, due to his behavioral probloems. You obviously know nothing about he public school system, same as many people who are blogging here. Very out of touch. Are you even from MA? Where the education budget is lower and lower on a regular basis (capita per student). Where I wasn’t working as a teacher, but overqualified to be a teacher. Working as an aide. With a masters. To hire me as a teacher, they would not be able to afford it. Workling as an aide you can be fired at any moment. So was I going to stand up against my principal and Superintendent at the time and say…. Nope. Someone did that, they were brought to court, then they were fired. I needed health insurance. Can anyone fortell someone will send their child to a class on forensic science, feed them as much Stephen King as they can find, even if he has a “My Space” page that looks like the one John had posted? I think that Asperger’s did in fact play a part in this, but Asperger’s in no way made John plan a premeditated crime. How about the fact that John had had a meeting with the district shrink the fall proir to all of this happening? Why not burn her at the stake?
Why would I have motives? Why would it not be that I am the only person here that has just seen this child and family interact with the school system first hand.
Hey I don’t live in MA any more. If you want a killer walking around in public with you and your families thats’s on you. I am democratic and liberal. The one thing I don’t think can be fixed is people and kids that kill. What if it was your child he killed, how forgiving would you be, because, and I am being very completely honest with you, I would not forgive him. I would want him locked up as long as possible.
I don’t understand the attacks on myself but yet they continue, and that is fine. I know that I am a great person. I am estabished in my field. A bunch of angry parents and girls bashing me because they are disabled or have disabled chidren are fine. I am a teacher. I have been awarded teacher of the year. I work with inner city youth. They go home and worry about being shot or taken by a child molester on the way. They hate school vacations, because they spend an entire week without food. I always make sure I have food squirreled away for them, so they can have something.
I live in a very modest townhouse with four pets I adopted from the humane society. I am engauged to someone who is jewish (i am catholic). I go visit my grandparents who are elderly, when they need my help. I love talking care of my 6 year old nephew. So those of you who wish to make me into a monster keep trying. I love my life and what I do. I suggest you all tqke loks in the mirror. I have posted articles for you, I have told you what I could. I defended myself againd people who lashed out at me because they have displaced their own anger, and I think several of you have a lot of growing up to do.
Kassiane
Feb 5, 2007 at 7:55 pm
I only see one person here who’s angry.
Though I imagine if John’s parents were to read this, then there’d be three.
Josh’s parent’s likely wouldn’t be too happy about their son’s killing being used as a platform for…whatever you’re ranting on about either.
But only one angry person, making lots of claims about her degrees and being a wonderful person, yet slamming people every chance she gets.
It’s really quite odd.
Kassiane
Feb 5, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Gah. James not Josh. Those names get me every time. But I’m not angry. Bet he isn’t either, at least not at me. I’m not using him.
Miss X
Feb 5, 2007 at 10:36 pm
“Prove the dead kid wasn’t a bully.”
-Yeah little girl, you speak with such charm and dignity. Hope your Rett’s does’t grip you and make you suffer like it does so many of it’s other patients. God, that would just save the world from hearing the verbal diarrhea that keeps pouring from your mouth in heeps. I have done no such thing when you say slamming peopple every chance I get. And if your smart little sel would look back, if your “head isn’t too fried”, and read from the beginning, none of it happened til you came on my dear little one. So go chew on that, maybe choke on it as well. ;)
Kristina Chew, PhD
Feb 5, 2007 at 11:33 pm
I am going to close comments on this post. Thanks to all for responding.
John Odgren’s Trial to Begin Sept 15
Mar 6, 2008 at 5:29 pm
[…] a year ago on January 19, 2007, 16-year-old special education student, John Odgren, was charged with killing a 15-year-old classmate, James Alenson, by stabbing him in a restroom at […]